[Fis] MODERATION NOTE
Prof. Dr. Thomas Görnitz
goernitz at em.uni-frankfurt.de
Wed Aug 13 18:27:33 CEST 2025
Dear Jason,
Thank you very much for the funny text from the AI.
The AI obviously has the same prejudices as its designers.
The detailed mathematical and physical explanations can be found,
for example, in the PDF edition of my book:
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.hanser-fachbuch.de/fachbuch/artikel/9783446480261__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UYD8Ad7QM7kW2QQDmDbBS6BjsGLb4yVcySAUgKoX9WaMMT6bTP4Y7V3zsMl0BcaZYKMki6Sx5DKy1uMuSGrE4wYHrgoHBA$
(Note: since the publisher has not released a Kindle e-book,
only the paper edition is available on Amazon).
The AI should have no trouble reading a German text.
It is to be expected that some of the necessary
philosophical conclusions will be new to some people.
All the best
Thomas
Quoting Jason Hu <jasonthegoodman at gmail.com>:
> Dear Thomas,
> I'm in a hurry and frankly having difficulties in understanding what you're
> writing, thus I asked my RA (Research Assistant or Robot Assistant), here
> is what he told me, for your fun, please let me know if he misunderstood
> you too:
> General Critique
>
> 1. Clarity and Accessibility:
> - The article is dense and verbose, making it difficult for
> non-experts to follow. The use of undefined terms like “AQI” and
> “protyposis” without clear explanations alienates readers and
> undermines
> the article’s credibility.
> - The author’s attempt to bridge philosophy and physics is ambitious
> but often results in convoluted arguments that lack rigor or clear
> connections to established theories.
> 2. Scientific Rigor:
> - The article blends valid scientific concepts (e.g., tensor
> products, density matrices) with speculative ideas (e.g., AQIs
> as the basis
> of reality) without sufficient justification. This risks being
> perceived as
> pseudoscience, especially when the author dismisses alternative views
> without engaging with them.
> - The reference to China’s quantum internet (page 4) is factually
> correct but tangential, serving more as a rhetorical flourish than a
> substantive contribution to the argument.
> 3. Philosophical Overreach:
> - The article’s philosophical claims, such as the subjective nature
> of information and the distinction between science and
> metaphysics (page
> 2), are valid but not novel. The author presents them as
> profound insights,
> which overstates their significance.
> - The discussion of AQIs as “completely Abstract” and free of
> “concrete specific meaning” (page 3) is philosophically interesting but
> lacks a clear connection to testable hypotheses, making it more
> speculative
> than scientific.
> 4. Logical Coherence:
> - The article’s logic is generally coherent but weakened by vague
> terminology, overgeneralizations, and occasional fallacies. The
> critique of
> Wheeler’s brevity, for example, feels pedantic and does not
> substantively
> challenge his ideas.
>
> ------------------------------
> ConclusionThe article offers an ambitious attempt to synthesize quantum
> theory, information theory, and philosophy, focusing on Wheeler’s ideas and
> the concept of AQIs. While it contains some valid insights, such as the
> distinction between everyday and quantum information and the multiplicative
> nature of quantum systems, it suffers from several weaknesses:
>
> - Logical Fallacies: Strawman arguments and appeals to authority
> undermine the article’s rigor.
> - Vague Terminology: Terms like “AQI” and “protyposis” are poorly
> defined and risk being perceived as pseudoscientific.
> - Speculative Claims: The assertion that AQIs form the basis of all
> physical reality lacks empirical or theoretical support.
> - Lack of Clarity: The verbose and convoluted writing style makes the
> article inaccessible to non-experts and obscures its key points.
>
> To improve, the author should:
>
> - Clearly define and justify terms like “AQI” and “protyposis” with
> references to established literature.
> - Avoid overgeneralizations and speculative claims without evidence.
> - Engage with alternative interpretations of quantum mechanics to
> strengthen the argument.
> - Simplify the writing style to enhance accessibility and clarity.
>
> Overall, while the article raises interesting philosophical and scientific
> questions, its lack of rigor and reliance on vague, speculative concepts
> limit its credibility and impact.
> Best regards, Jason
>
> On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 7:31 AM Prof. Dr. Thomas Görnitz <
> goernitz at em.uni-frankfurt.de> wrote:
>
>> Dear Jason,
>> dear all
>>
>> Thank you very much for pointing this out. Without your suggestion, I
>> would probably not have been able to comment on it.
>>
>> In his article, Jaeger makes it very clear what the difference is between
>> the usual use of the word “information” as he understands it and a physical
>> statement about a quantum structure with a two-dimensional state space, as
>> I can represent it as the basis of reality for mathematical and physical
>> reasons.
>>
>> Of course, the world is not made up of the kind of information that living
>> beings exchange with each other or receive from their environment.
>>
>> A crucial difference between everyday language and physics becomes clear
>> when, for example, some people claim that “reality consists of energy.”
>>
>> Energy is often, and rightly so, interpreted as kinetic energy, as motion.
>> A statement such as “the world consists of motion” is, of course, complete
>> nonsense. It is evident to everyone that the world consists of material
>> objects, and some of these objects move.
>>
>> In everyday life, therefore, a clear distinction is rightly made between
>> material objects and their forms of motion. A distinction is also made
>> between material objects, such as paper, and their properties, which we
>> perceive as information, e.g., black lines on paper, which we interpret as
>> writing, i.e., as information for us.
>>
>> To repeat, this form of information is not, of course, what the cosmos
>> with its stars and planets consists of.
>>
>> However, when we turn to philosophy and the fundamentals of physics,
>> Einstein's E=mc^2 shows that, in reality, things are not as clearly
>> separated as we distinguish them in everyday life.
>>
>> Wheeler has the ability to express some physical facts very clearly and
>> concisely, and, of course, through this clarity and conciseness, to assert
>> some inaccuracies.
>>
>> Wheeler's statement “No elementary phenomenon is a phenomenon before it is
>> an observed phenomenon” becomes completely evident and thus trivial when it
>> is not abbreviated.
>>
>> Wheeler's formulation does not make it clear that the problem is when a
>> description of quantum possibilities should be replaced by a description of
>> a factual state. As long as a quantum system remains completely isolated,
>> its possible states change without any fact occurring.
>>
>> The less energy is required to break the isolation, and thus the greater
>> the mass of the structure involved, the easier it is to break the
>> isolation. Once the quantum system is no longer completely isolated, it
>> becomes entangled with its immediate environment, which in turn becomes
>> entangled with the wider environment, and so on.
>>
>> If the quantum system is then removed from the entanglement for the
>> purpose of description, the description changes from a wave function to a
>> density matrix. This means that now not one but many wave functions, each
>> with specific probabilities, describe the system. In the mathematical
>> limit, such a density matrix transitions into the description of an unknown
>> fact. This is then the same as in classical probability theory, for
>> example, when a die is dropped under a cup.
>>
>> However, the mathematical limit is only reached after an infinitely long
>> time. No one can wait that long. It therefore seems sensible to continue
>> the description of the system based on a factual state if there are good
>> reasons to believe that this is the better description in the situation in
>> question.
>>
>> We humans rightly have the firm impression that facts occur constantly and
>> everywhere. But if no information about them has been obtained or could be
>> obtained, then no scientific statements can be made about them.
>>
>> We must always remember that science is not nature itself, but rather the
>> best possible theoretical simulation of its behavior. If a simulation can
>> be replaced by a better one, then this should be done.
>>
>> *A less catchy but much more accurate formulation of Wheeler's thesis
>> would therefore be:*
>>
>> "No elementary phenomenon is a phenomenon *about whose properties and
>> even whose existence we can make any scientific statement* before it is
>> an observed phenomenon *– in this process, observation must not be
>> confused with the seeing of any human observer, rather, observation must be
>> understood (as is customary in natural science) as the result of knowledge
>> acquisition within the framework of theoretical contexts with trustworthy
>> theories.*"
>>
>> When we observe the states of a particle in Hilbert space, we are not, of
>> course, looking at a completely abstract mathematical structure. Rather, it
>> is a matter of simulating the behavior of structures in nature. This can be
>> done with the help of the Schrödinger equation or with the help of an
>> artificial intelligence neural network. The behavior of the structure under
>> investigation is then compared with the predictions of the theoretical
>> structure. Since quantum theory provides statements about probability
>> distributions, a statistical evaluation is required to verify predictions.
>>
>> Observation is therefore to be understood as the acquisition of
>> scientifically usable knowledge. We cannot make any scientific claims about
>> something we know nothing about. Of course, there are many statements about
>> facts that no one knows anything about, but these do not belong in the
>> realm of natural science, but perhaps in metaphysics, theology, fantasy, or
>> esotericism.
>>
>> Wheeler's “It from Bit” is kind of like the first thesis.
>>
>> Wheeler figured out something really important and put it into words with
>> this thesis.
>>
>> If quantum theory is interpreted correctly, then one of its fundamental
>> statements is the following: The structures of complex systems can be
>> explained by the fact that the subsystems that are supposed to create the
>> complex system are combined in a very special way. This combination differs
>> fundamentally from the methods of classical physics. In classical physics,
>> subsystems, such as planets in a solar system, are added to the overall
>> system in an additive manner. The state space of the overall system is the
>> direct sum of the state spaces of the subsystems, i.e., the planets.
>>
>> Quantum theory combines systems according to the motto: “The whole is
>> greater than the sum of its parts.”
>>
>> A complex system in the Hilbert space of its quantum states is described
>> multiplicatively via the tensor product of the state spaces of its parts.
>>
>> Such a multiplicative structure cannot begin with a one-dimensional state
>> space, but in the simplest case with a two-dimensional quantum state space
>> of the quantum sub-structures.
>>
>> The mathematically simplest of the possible quantum structures are the
>> AQIs.
>>
>> AQIs are *A*bsolute quantum structures, i.e., they refer to the whole, to
>> the cosmos. They are completely *A*bstract, i.e., free of any concrete
>> specific meaning. They have the mathematical structure of a bit of *Q*
>> uantum*I*nformation, i.e., a two-dimensional Hilbert space of states –
>> but of course no concrete meaning yet.
>>
>> As I have been publishing for a long time, massless quantum particles and
>> those with a rest mass can be constructed from AQIs, just as they are used
>> in the Minkowski space of elementary particle physics.
>>
>> If Wheeler's thesis: “It from Bit” is understood in the sense I have
>> described here with AQIs, then it can be interpreted as correct.
>>
>> Among other things, black holes, elementary particles without rest mass
>> and with rest mass are formed from the AQIs. Atoms are then formed from
>> these. These then form molecules with completely new and different
>> properties than the atoms can have.
>>
>> Only when the first living beings have formed in cosmic evolution can
>> properties of material or energetic structures become meaningful
>> information.
>>
>> Let us recall once again the fact known to all human beings: the meaning
>> of information is not objective. It is only partially generated in the
>> recipient. Only the recipient decodes the incoming information and can then
>> assign meaning to it. Meaning is specific and concrete for the recipient of
>> such a defined form of “information.”
>>
>> The distinction between AQIs and the possible properties that can be
>> perceived in formed material and energetic structures is indeed difficult.
>>
>> Both the material and energetic structures as well as their properties are
>> specially formed structures made of AQIs. In biology, the exchange of
>> information between the respective sender and receiver structures takes
>> place exclusively through photons. After all, all chemical and biochemical
>> interactions are electromagnetic.
>>
>> The properties that can be transmitted by photons can become meaningful
>> information for a living being. Such transmissible properties, such as
>> images or sounds, can be digitized today. Such bits, or possibly quantum
>> bits, are also special structures made of AQIs. They appear localized
>> because they have a material or energetic carrier.
>>
>> The quantum bits in computers are truncated. They have only two real
>> parameters, the two angles of the Bloch sphere. AQIs, on the other hand,
>> have a full two-dimensional state space over the complex numbers.
>>
>> This is precisely why the set of AQIs that generate scientifically
>> researchable reality is better described as “protyposis” rather than
>> “information.”
>>
>> This term from Greek philosophy does not initially generate any concepts
>> and therefore no misconceptions. This is particularly important because it
>> is still widely believed that quantum theory is merely “microphysics.”
>>
>> The Einstein-Podolski-Rosen phenomena clearly demonstrate in experiments
>> that there is no limit to the spatial expansion of a particle-less quantum
>> system. China is currently building an Internet that is tap-proof for
>> physical reasons based on this physical discovery. The expansions of
>> particle-less quantum states generated experimentally with the aid of a
>> satellite, which are mostly referred to as “entangled photons,” already
>> extend over 1200 km. In the mathematical description, however, they are a
>> particle-less whole and not two separate particles.
>>
>> Only with AQIs can we understand what it means that, in a
>> quantum-theoretical description of reality, the simplest structures have
>> the mathematical form of quantum bits.
>>
>> However, the term “quantum bits” makes it difficult to understand that
>> they cannot be assigned any clear, specific concrete meaning—except for the
>> central meaning that they form the basis of scientifically investigable
>> reality.
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> Thomas
>>
>>
>>
>> Quoting Jason Hu <jasonthegoodman at gmail.com>:
>>
>> > Members of this group might be interested in this article, if this author
>> > is still not here:
>> >
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://iai.tv/articles/the-universe-is-not-made-of-information-auid-3274?fbclid=IwY2xjawL_hwRleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFNdkRRVVVVdjNnUWNvbzB6AR6X1DcoNzP8Cg9-tOZp5-ioAFKjQK80ogmCMTZjlv9k03P6ooBYKkUPtrz_yA_aem_emP0WzBSxSkuc8Lowigqeg__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UxHR7bhrHQHXbUONoa_20ed5lZ-46gfmSDe7gcvrXCahIruncbGYvKRA8xufbBZesQIgw5ywsmVdgF4krKvrgctVih4A$
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Jul 30, 2025 at 2:23 AM Francesco Rizzo <
>> 13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Dearest Pedro and all, I feel the need to let you know that love, in
>> >> love, creates love. Even in silence, a moment when everything
>> >> ispossible. As I've written before, let me say that I miss Terry
>> >> Deacon's words.
>> >>
>> >> A warm hug.
>> >>
>> >> Francesco Rizzo
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Feedback
>> >> Google Traduttore
>> >> [image: image.png]
>> >> Google
>> >>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://translate.google.it__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UxHR7bhrHQHXbUONoa_20ed5lZ-46gfmSDe7gcvrXCahIruncbGYvKRA8xufbBZesQIgw5ywsmVdgF4krKvrgbcqfKjL$
>> ›
>> >> ...
>> >>
>> >> <
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://translate.google.it/?hl=it__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!W2XUbqaFgKaHCmPLscl8-69MxCMw_6QVJI7T_rTgCLwCViqv2erz8GQ92-jlv3--FZ9gB4vfguXpssersUb1i5f3mnXc$
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Carissimo Pedro e Cari tutti,
>> >> sento il bi-sogno di farvi sapere che l'amore, nell'amore, amore crea.
>> >> Anche nel silenzio, un momento
>> >> in cui tutto è possibile, Come ho scritto altre volte, lasciatemi dire
>> che
>> >> mi mancano le parole di Terry Deacon.
>> >> Un abbraccio affettuoso.
>> >> Francesco Rizzo
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Il giorno lun 30 giu 2025 alle ore 21:20 Pedro C. Marijuán <
>> >> pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com> ha scritto:
>> >>
>> >>> Dear FIS Colleagues,
>> >>>
>> >>> In the list server with the description of this list there appear the
>> >>> basic posting rules.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> *FIS POSTING RULES - FIRST RULE: Maintaining the academic & scholarly
>> >>> code of conduct; messages not abiding by it should be ignored. - SECOND
>> >>> RULE: Participants have only right to a maximum of TWO OR THREE
>> MESSAGES
>> >>> PER WEEK (two should be the general rule, but just one can be
>> recommended
>> >>> in case of list saturation). Discussion chairs may always post beyond
>> that
>> >>> limit. - THIRD RULE: Clean posting; not dragging accumulated previous
>> >>> messages; addressing the messages only to fis at listas.unizar.es
>> >>> <fis at listas.unizar.es>, exclusively (in any case, the less “cc”
>> addresses
>> >>> included the better). Attached files are very unwelcome. *
>> >>>
>> >>> I have emphasized the first one, given the recent 'disruptive'
>> exchange.
>> >>> Reading something that contradicts the own stance is not well taken
>> >>> generally. It immediately focuses one´s attention and provokes an
>> irritated
>> >>> response. Actually this is the bread and butter of social networks,
>> >>> engineered to capture people's attention and engagement, (the power of
>> >>> irritation!) and better target their propaganda. On a global scale,
>> >>> undoubtedly, it has contributed to polarization increase and growing
>> >>> thinking hostility. In our own micro-environment I have often asked for
>> >>> more seasoned responses, for (micro) essay style, and for strict
>> >>> self-containment. I have applied to myself the rule of never answering
>> >>> irritated, to wait a minimum of 48 hours before penning my response. I
>> have
>> >>> observed that 90% of the offense dissolves after that time (it was
>> almost
>> >>> nothing!) and one can then go to the substantive points... And that's
>> it:
>> >>> let us abide by the First Rule. And please, don't answer to each other
>> so
>> >>> fast.
>> >>>
>> >>> All the best,
>> >>>
>> >>> --Pedro
>> >>> _______________________________________________
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>> >> ----------
>> >>
>>
>> Prof. Dr. Thomas Görnitz
>> Fellow of the INTERNATIONAL ACADEMY OF INFORMATION STUDIES
>>
>> Privat (für Postsendungen):
>> Karl-Mangold-Str. 13
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>> Tel: 0049-89-887746
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://goernitzunderstandingquantumtheory.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!WvKHBCLS_1mvsRf4ege8PpT95X7xrcuqV8xWOH_m91lM4J8BSu8SbyGykuSf8BArEwPqSXiwLLR7tB_PZxlzVO8cSaDx$
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://goernitzunderstandingquantumtheory.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!W02sKrxwcB6O5g2jaJ17d9GkGyKKdL86L3QnYqhKW_51EKiW0F86UktkvELiH7rqu45MeCXhPUXX_tArg6r6jxAnOvNLkg$>
>>
>> Fachbereich Physik
>> J. W. Goethe-Universität Frankfurt/Main
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>> INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
>>
>> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por
>> la Universidad de Zaragoza.
>> Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el
>> siguiente enlace:
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>> Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de
>> baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.
>> http://listas.unizar.es
>> ----------
>>
Prof. Dr. Thomas Görnitz
Fellow of the INTERNATIONAL ACADEMY OF INFORMATION STUDIES
Privat (für Postsendungen):
Karl-Mangold-Str. 13
D-81245 München
Tel: 0049-89-887746
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Fachbereich Physik
J. W. Goethe-Universität Frankfurt/Main
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