[Fis] MODERATION NOTE

[Prof. Dr. Thomas Görnitz]

  Dear Jason,
dear all

  Thank you very much for pointing this out. Without your suggestion,  
I would probably not have been able to comment on it.

  In his article, Jaeger makes it very clear what the difference is  
between the usual use of the word “information” as he understands it  
and a physical statement about a quantum structure with a  
two-dimensional state space, as I can represent it as the basis of  
reality for mathematical and physical reasons.

  Of course, the world is not made up of the kind of information that  
living beings exchange with each other or receive from their  
environment.

  A crucial difference between everyday language and physics becomes  
clear when, for example, some people claim that “reality consists of  
energy.”

  Energy is often, and rightly so, interpreted as kinetic energy, as  
motion. A statement such as “the world consists of motion” is, of  
course, complete nonsense. It is evident to everyone that the world  
consists of material objects, and some of these objects move.

  In everyday life, therefore, a clear distinction is rightly made  
between material objects and their forms of motion. A distinction is  
also made between material objects, such as paper, and their  
properties, which we perceive as information, e.g., black lines on  
paper, which we interpret as writing, i.e., as information for us.

  To repeat, this form of information is not, of course, what the  
cosmos with its stars and planets consists of.

  However, when we turn to philosophy and the fundamentals of physics,  
Einstein's E=mc^2 shows that, in reality, things are not as clearly  
separated as we distinguish them in everyday life.

  Wheeler has the ability to express some physical facts very clearly  
and concisely, and, of course, through this clarity and conciseness,  
to assert some inaccuracies.

  Wheeler's statement “No elementary phenomenon is a phenomenon before  
it is an observed phenomenon” becomes completely evident and thus  
trivial when it is not abbreviated.

  Wheeler's formulation does not make it clear that the problem is  
when a description of quantum possibilities should be replaced by a  
description of a factual state. As long as a quantum system remains  
completely isolated, its possible states change without any fact  
occurring.

  The less energy is required to break the isolation, and thus the  
greater the mass of the structure involved, the easier it is to break  
the isolation. Once the quantum system is no longer completely  
isolated, it becomes entangled with its immediate environment, which  
in turn becomes entangled with the wider environment, and so on.

  If the quantum system is then removed from the entanglement for the  
purpose of description, the description changes from a wave function  
to a density matrix. This means that now not one but many wave  
functions, each with specific probabilities, describe the system. In  
the mathematical limit, such a density matrix transitions into the  
description of an unknown fact. This is then the same as in classical  
probability theory, for example, when a die is dropped under a cup.

  However, the mathematical limit is only reached after an infinitely  
long time. No one can wait that long. It therefore seems sensible to  
continue the description of the system based on a factual state if  
there are good reasons to believe that this is the better description  
in the situation in question.

  We humans rightly have the firm impression that facts occur  
constantly and everywhere. But if no information about them has been  
obtained or could be obtained, then no scientific statements can be  
made about them.

  We must always remember that science is not nature itself, but  
rather the best possible theoretical simulation of its behavior. If a  
simulation can be replaced by a better one, then this should be done.

  A LESS CATCHY BUT MUCH MORE ACCURATE FORMULATION OF WHEELER'S THESIS  
WOULD THEREFORE BE:

  "No elementary phenomenon is a phenomenon ABOUT WHOSE PROPERTIES AND  
EVEN WHOSE EXISTENCE WE CAN MAKE ANY SCIENTIFIC STATEMENT before it is  
an observed phenomenon – IN THIS PROCESS, OBSERVATION MUST NOT BE  
CONFUSED WITH THE SEEING OF ANY HUMAN OBSERVER, RATHER, OBSERVATION  
MUST BE UNDERSTOOD (AS IS CUSTOMARY IN NATURAL SCIENCE) AS THE RESULT  
OF KNOWLEDGE ACQUISITION WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK OF THEORETICAL CONTEXTS  
WITH TRUSTWORTHY THEORIES."

  When we observe the states of a particle in Hilbert space, we are  
not, of course, looking at a completely abstract mathematical  
structure. Rather, it is a matter of simulating the behavior of  
structures in nature. This can be done with the help of the  
Schrödinger equation or with the help of an artificial intelligence  
neural network. The behavior of the structure under investigation is  
then compared with the predictions of the theoretical structure. Since  
quantum theory provides statements about probability distributions, a  
statistical evaluation is required to verify predictions.

  Observation is therefore to be understood as the acquisition of  
scientifically usable knowledge. We cannot make any scientific claims  
about something we know nothing about. Of course, there are many  
statements about facts that no one knows anything about, but these do  
not belong in the realm of natural science, but perhaps in  
metaphysics, theology, fantasy, or esotericism.

  Wheeler's “It from Bit” is kind of like the first thesis.

  Wheeler figured out something really important and put it into words  
with this thesis.

  If quantum theory is interpreted correctly, then one of its  
fundamental statements is the following: The structures of complex  
systems can be explained by the fact that the subsystems that are  
supposed to create the complex system are combined in a very special  
way. This combination differs fundamentally from the methods of  
classical physics. In classical physics, subsystems, such as planets  
in a solar system, are added to the overall system in an additive  
manner. The state space of the overall system is the direct sum of the  
state spaces of the subsystems, i.e., the planets.

  Quantum theory combines systems according to the motto: “The whole  
is greater than the sum of its parts.”

  A complex system in the Hilbert space of its quantum states is  
described multiplicatively via the tensor product of the state spaces  
of its parts.

  Such a multiplicative structure cannot begin with a one-dimensional  
state space, but in the simplest case with a two-dimensional quantum  
state space of the quantum sub-structures.

  The mathematically simplest of the possible quantum structures are the AQIs.

  AQIs are Absolute quantum structures, i.e., they refer to the whole,  
to the cosmos. They are completely Abstract, i.e., free of any  
concrete specific meaning. They have the mathematical structure of a  
bit of QuantumInformation, i.e., a two-dimensional Hilbert space of  
states – but of course no concrete meaning yet.

  As I have been publishing for a long time, massless quantum  
particles and those with a rest mass can be constructed from AQIs,  
just as they are used in the Minkowski space of elementary particle  
physics.

  If Wheeler's thesis: “It from Bit” is understood in the sense I have  
described here with AQIs, then it can be interpreted as correct.

  Among other things, black holes, elementary particles without rest  
mass and with rest mass are formed from the AQIs. Atoms are then  
formed from these. These then form molecules with completely new and  
different properties than the atoms can have.

  Only when the first living beings have formed in cosmic evolution  
can properties of material or energetic structures become meaningful  
information.

  Let us recall once again the fact known to all human beings: the  
meaning of information is not objective. It is only partially  
generated in the recipient. Only the recipient decodes the incoming  
information and can then assign meaning to it. Meaning is specific and  
concrete for the recipient of such a defined form of “information.”

  The distinction between AQIs and the possible properties that can be  
perceived in formed material and energetic structures is indeed  
difficult.

  Both the material and energetic structures as well as their  
properties are specially formed structures made of AQIs. In biology,  
the exchange of information between the respective sender and receiver  
structures takes place exclusively through photons. After all, all  
chemical and biochemical interactions are electromagnetic.

  The properties that can be transmitted by photons can become  
meaningful information for a living being. Such transmissible  
properties, such as images or sounds, can be digitized today. Such  
bits, or possibly quantum bits, are also special structures made of  
AQIs. They appear localized because they have a material or energetic  
carrier.

  The quantum bits in computers are truncated. They have only two real  
parameters, the two angles of the Bloch sphere. AQIs, on the other  
hand, have a full two-dimensional state space over the complex numbers.

  This is precisely why the set of AQIs that generate scientifically  
researchable reality is better described as “protyposis” rather than  
“information.”

  This term from Greek philosophy does not initially generate any  
concepts and therefore no misconceptions. This is particularly  
important because it is still widely believed that quantum theory is  
merely “microphysics.” 

  The Einstein-Podolski-Rosen phenomena clearly demonstrate in  
experiments that there is no limit to the spatial expansion of a  
particle-less quantum system. China is currently building an Internet  
that is tap-proof for physical reasons based on this physical  
discovery. The expansions of particle-less quantum states generated  
experimentally with the aid of a satellite, which are mostly referred  
to as “entangled photons,” already extend over 1200 km. In the  
mathematical description, however, they are a particle-less whole and  
not two separate particles.

  Only with AQIs can we understand what it means that, in a  
quantum-theoretical description of reality, the simplest structures  
have the mathematical form of quantum bits.

  However, the term “quantum bits” makes it difficult to understand  
that they cannot be assigned any clear, specific concrete  
meaning—except for the central meaning that they form the basis of  
scientifically investigable reality.

  All the best 

  Thomas

Quoting Jason Hu <jasonthegoodman at gmail.com>:

> Members of this group might be interested in this article, if this author
> is still not here:
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://iai.tv/articles/the-universe-is-not-made-of-information-auid-3274?fbclid=IwY2xjawL_hwRleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFNdkRRVVVVdjNnUWNvbzB6AR6X1DcoNzP8Cg9-tOZp5-ioAFKjQK80ogmCMTZjlv9k03P6ooBYKkUPtrz_yA_aem_emP0WzBSxSkuc8Lowigqeg__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UxHR7bhrHQHXbUONoa_20ed5lZ-46gfmSDe7gcvrXCahIruncbGYvKRA8xufbBZesQIgw5ywsmVdgF4krKvrgctVih4A$
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2025 at 2:23 AM Francesco Rizzo <13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dearest Pedro and all, I feel the need to let you know that love, in
>> love, creates love. Even in silence, a moment when everything
>> ispossible. As I've written before, let me say that I miss Terry
>> Deacon's words.
>>
>> A warm hug.
>>
>> Francesco Rizzo
>>
>>
>> Feedback
>> Google Traduttore
>> [image: image.png]
>> Google
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://translate.google.it__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UxHR7bhrHQHXbUONoa_20ed5lZ-46gfmSDe7gcvrXCahIruncbGYvKRA8xufbBZesQIgw5ywsmVdgF4krKvrgbcqfKjL$%5B1%5D   
>> ›
>> ...
>>
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://translate.google.it/?hl=it__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!W2XUbqaFgKaHCmPLscl8-69MxCMw_6QVJI7T_rTgCLwCViqv2erz8GQ92-jlv3--FZ9gB4vfguXpssersUb1i5f3mnXc$>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Carissimo Pedro e Cari tutti,
>> sento il bi-sogno di farvi sapere che l'amore, nell'amore, amore crea.
>> Anche nel silenzio, un momento
>> in cui tutto è possibile, Come ho scritto altre volte, lasciatemi dire che
>> mi mancano le parole di Terry Deacon.
>> Un abbraccio affettuoso.
>> Francesco Rizzo
>>
>>
>> Il giorno lun 30 giu 2025 alle ore 21:20 Pedro C. Marijuán <
>> pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>
>>> Dear FIS Colleagues,
>>>
>>> In the list server with the description of this list there appear the
>>> basic posting rules.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *FIS POSTING RULES - FIRST RULE: Maintaining the academic & scholarly
>>> code of conduct; messages not abiding by it should be ignored. - SECOND
>>> RULE: Participants have only right to a maximum of TWO OR THREE MESSAGES
>>> PER WEEK (two should be the general rule, but just one can be recommended
>>> in case of list saturation). Discussion chairs may always post beyond that
>>> limit. - THIRD RULE: Clean posting; not dragging accumulated previous
>>> messages; addressing the messages only to fis at listas.unizar.es
>>> <fis at listas.unizar.es>, exclusively (in any case, the less “cc” addresses
>>> included the better). Attached files are very unwelcome. *
>>>
>>> I have emphasized the first one, given the recent 'disruptive' exchange.
>>> Reading something that contradicts the own stance is not well taken
>>> generally. It immediately focuses one´s attention and provokes an irritated
>>> response. Actually this is the bread and butter of social networks,
>>> engineered to capture people's attention and engagement, (the power of
>>> irritation!) and better target their propaganda. On a global scale,
>>> undoubtedly, it has contributed to polarization increase and growing
>>> thinking hostility. In our own micro-environment I have often asked for
>>> more seasoned responses, for (micro) essay style, and for strict
>>> self-containment. I have applied to myself the rule of never answering
>>> irritated, to wait a minimum of 48 hours before penning my response. I have
>>> observed that 90% of the offense dissolves after that time (it was almost
>>> nothing!) and one can then go to the substantive points...  And that's it:
>>> let us abide by the First Rule. And please, don't answer to each other so
>>> fast.
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> --Pedro
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Fis mailing list
>>> Fis at listas.unizar.es
>>> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis 
>>> ----------
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>>> Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de
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>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Fis mailing list
>> Fis at listas.unizar.es
>> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis 
>> ----------
>> INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
>>
>> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por
>> la Universidad de Zaragoza.
>> Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el
>> siguiente enlace:
>> https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas 
>> Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de
>> baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.
>> http://listas.unizar.es 
>> ----------
>>



Links:
------
[1]  
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Prof. Dr. Thomas Görnitz
Fellow of the INTERNATIONAL ACADEMY OF INFORMATION STUDIES

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Fachbereich Physik
J. W. Goethe-Universität Frankfurt/Main
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