[Fis] Concluding Comments?

[Dai Griffiths]

Interesting links, I hope I am not too late to respond.
It seems to me that there is a big difference between things which are:

a) unsurprising

   - identifying a transform of a aural stimulus that has activated a
   persons eardrum, where we can assume that the neural processes involved are
   largely the same for all individuals.

b) Could be feasible, but which depend on details of brain processes which
I do not know, or which perhaps are as yet unknown.

   - identifying a memory of an aural stimulus
   - identifying a word just before it is vocalised (or which is conciously
   thought without vocalisation).

c) Doubtful

   - Interpreting the thoughts of a person as they go about their living,
   which might or might not lead to speech. My assumption is that the neuronal
   structures involved are deeply contingent on the detail of the organisms'
   prior interactions, and so cannot be mapped between organisms

I may be wrong about (d), time will tell. But if I am right, then we should
reserve judgment about the prospects for 'brain transparency', An
encephalographic overseer might be able to see if their minion is on task,
but perhaps not what they are thinking about.

Best
Dai

On Thu, 7 Mar 2024 at 10:36, Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov <
plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> Well said. Thank you, Catlos.
>
> I have one last question:
>
> What do you and the FIS colleagues think of this kind of outlook for
> evolutionary formali(n)sation?
>
> 1.
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://news.mit.edu/2019/training-artificial-intelligence-brain-scan-0619__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XgsQoIol61Yd7qO5KpDjlbgbhYWRVqkPmYuuWK0h1gZGj2ByYu95J7OlJjcDjhpkFVtjCsryLVT5eq4dlZWZdxLXy2Kf$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://news.mit.edu/2019/training-artificial-intelligence-brain-scan-0619__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SsU3-gNIFwLZgKiiAaKmhhb1-cQGJaorxvmbNO3QLa-ar2RGlYGvCeFuJBLc7vMzwA0hIWAxk5GeRtvH74S8ZtvCj4Rp$>
>
> 2.
>
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/05/01/1072471/brain-scans-can-translate-a-persons-thoughts-into-words/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XgsQoIol61Yd7qO5KpDjlbgbhYWRVqkPmYuuWK0h1gZGj2ByYu95J7OlJjcDjhpkFVtjCsryLVT5eq4dlZWZdw3l8-XE$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/05/01/1072471/brain-scans-can-translate-a-persons-thoughts-into-words/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SsU3-gNIFwLZgKiiAaKmhhb1-cQGJaorxvmbNO3QLa-ar2RGlYGvCeFuJBLc7vMzwA0hIWAxk5GeRtvH74S8ZtEGJZZW$>
>
> 3.
>
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.weforum.org/videos/davos-am23-ready-for-brain-transparency-english/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XgsQoIol61Yd7qO5KpDjlbgbhYWRVqkPmYuuWK0h1gZGj2ByYu95J7OlJjcDjhpkFVtjCsryLVT5eq4dlZWZdwoGylEF$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.weforum.org/videos/davos-am23-ready-for-brain-transparency-english/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SsU3-gNIFwLZgKiiAaKmhhb1-cQGJaorxvmbNO3QLa-ar2RGlYGvCeFuJBLc7vMzwA0hIWAxk5GeRtvH74S8ZtSFL0yp$>
>
>
> All the best!
>
> Plamen
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 7:06 PM Carlos Gershenson <cgershen at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Pedro and colleagues,
>>
>> Thank you very much for the lively discussions and commentaries. I have
>> learned a lot.
>>
>> I would not say these are concluding comments, as all questions remain
>> open, but perhaps "summarizing comments".
>>
>> I think that efforts to “fix” formal systems to go beyond or around their
>> limits (*à la* Hilbert’s program) are doomed to fail. We still need to
>> accept them or find a better way of dealing with them. Perhaps an
>> alternative would be not to see them as something negative, but as
>> something we can exploit/benefit from. I mean, just hypothetically imagine
>> if mathematics was consistent, complete, and decidable. Yes, we would have
>> absolute truths, we could have certainty. But would we have creativity?
>> Innovation? Serendipity? In other words, we could eliminate many problems
>> we suffer from, but perhaps we would have many more. Even worse, perhaps we
>> would not even be here. For how could human culture evolve in a consistent,
>> complete, and decidable world?
>>
>> Of course, this does not mean that we should abandon science or formal
>> methods. But by acknowledging their limits, we should be able to use
>> different narratives to explore beyond them.
>>
>> Best (albeit incomplete) wishes,
>>
>> Carlos
>>
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