[Fis] "express matter and energy in terms of information"

Tue Feb 13 14:33:15 CET 2024

From: Fis <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> on behalf of Alex Hankey <alexhankey at gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, 13 February 2024 at 08:42
To: Marcus Abundis <55mrcs at gmail.com>
Cc: fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>, Carlos Gershenson <cgershen at gmail.com>, Krassimir Markov <itheaiss at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Fis] "express matter and energy in terms of information"

BUT Life and Consciousness can never be expressed 'in terms of information'.
At their heart lie the phenomena of critical instabilities, the physics of which make their digitisation impossible!
Alex

On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 at 12:51, Marcus Abundis <55mrcs at gmail.com<mailto:55mrcs at gmail.com>> wrote:
Krassimir – a simple but absolutely essential question!

To my mind, this is T.H.E. central matter in clarifying our whole 'informatic mess'. Here is *my* take on things . . .

If the whole world is indeed composed of nothing but bosons (elementary particles) and fermions (force carriers), then anything coming from the *joining* of bosons and fermions is in fact energy-matter (re your 'matter and energy'). Further, it is exactly in 'HOW they *join*' that conveys basic 'information'. For example, if they join 'one way' we have a proton, if they join 'another way' we have a neutron. That JOINING OF ENERGY AND MATTER (energy-matter) thus produces 'proton' and 'neutron' information, with no need for 'an observer' and with no need for 'interpretation' — it simply IS as Stuart's 'order for free' (or God's 'I am that I am!'), or at least *my* interpretation of cosmo-genesis.

So at this point, we now have protons, neutrons (NEW elementary energy-matter particles), and electrons (force carrier). Next, HOW protons, neutrons, and electrons JOIN tells us what type of 'atom' exists as oxygen, iron, or . . . ALL as firmly bound energy-matter! So again, self-evident order-for-free 'information' arises — which now easily extends to molecular models of ferrous bits and bytes (computer core memory) . . . and *again* it is HOW ferrous bits and bytes JOIN (are specifically read, now by an observer/interpreter) that conveys 'next-level information'!

This notion of HOW 'things' JOIN reaches across the informatic map. For example, the *specific* way of HOW nuts-and-bolts JOIN determines if we have a 747 jumbo jet, a Rolls Royce, or a pair of roller skates — what we might call distinct informatic expressions. The same applies equally to material AND abstract (logical) realms.

But the problem is that we DO NOT have formally recognized energy-matter (in contrast to space-time, thank you Einstein). Why no 'formally recognized energy-matter' exists is that there are four fundamental forces (force carrier 'types') and we are unsure of HOW the INTERACT/join . . . which means no 'information' (exists to *us* humans) on a Unified Field Theory (a Holy Grail to frame all of  'science'). Nature has no similar problem, it does not need to 'understand' itself in order to act. We briefly touched on this 'entropic problem' in the Q&A session at the end of my IS4SI 2021 talk (you may recall?).

Marcus

On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 10:39 PM Krassimir Markov <itheaiss at gmail.com<mailto:itheaiss at gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear Carlos,
You wrote "... express matter and energy in terms of information".

Simple question:

How can it be done?

Please give at least one example, for instance, to express the cheese in terms of information.

With respect,
Krassimir
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