[Fis] (no subject)

Wed Dec 25 19:48:19 CET 2024

There are tendencies to make the scope of FIS smaller and more regulated.
On the other hand, some arguments speak for keeping or even enlarging the
catalog of subjects, the discussion of which enlightens and pleases the
Learned Friends.

Do not take off the fis list your attempts to clarify, categorise, typify
information in its appearances.

Such exchanges are the first reason we have assembled. The delineation
between pure Techné and epistemology is important. Once we agree that say
DNA needs to have iterations (because of the relations among 32, 97, 129)
then the resulting big data crunch is applied science and no more
philosophy.

Philosophical questions remain, as one is undecided how to deal with the
over-determination and how to count the extents of the part-truths which in
their ensemble constitute the certainty. We don't have any ideas yet what
to count, eg with respect to lust, inner balance, curiosity or evoking a
memory content.
These levels, aspects, prospects are yet philosophical, not in the
technical process.

Please keep the deliberations re catalog of current definitions of
information,
re what part of the work we do here is philosophical inquiry and what part
is simply doing the necessary calculations. We can trust each other and any
new soloist Pedro will introduce that their ideas will be attended to, even
while we keep discussing our everlasting hobby / obsession, how to
understand our own neurology.

Don't go offline with the juiciest bits, if you don't mind.

Karl

Krassimir Markov <itheaiss at gmail.com> schrieb am Mi., 25. Dez. 2024, 19:09:

> Dear Jason,
> Thanks for the very interesting letter!
>
> I have been meaning to write an analysis of the relationship between these
> two definitions for a long time. Perhaps now is the time to pay some
> attention to this matter.
>
> Yes, there is an intersection between the two definitions, and that's
> wonderful. But I think it's just an intersection, not a coincidence.
>
> Since a New Year's Lecture is held at the beginning of each year in the
> FIS list, and our conversation is unlikely to be interesting for everyone,
> I propose to discuss your idea and my considerations through a personal
> exchange of letters.
>
> Of course, there is nothing secret about this conversation, so let anyone
> who would like to take part in it write to me and that way they will be
> included in the conversation and will be able to express their opinions.
>
> My email address for this conversation is:
>  Krassimir Markov <itheaiss at gmail.com>
>
> Happy Holidays and Happy New Year 2025!
> With best wishes,
> Krassimir
>
>
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> <#m_-8900431020594219230_m_-8212159309801411794_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> На сб, 21.12.2024 г. в 16:38 Jason Hu <jasonthegoodman at gmail.com> написа:
>
>> Dear Krassimir and all colleagues,
>>
>> Would it be better if Information = Data*Meaning ?
>>
>> From a constructivist point of view, if Data = null or if Meaning = null
>> then there is no information.
>>
>> Combining with my earlier suggestion that Information = A difference(d1)
>> that maks a difference (d2), d1=data, d2=meaning;
>> And we have d1=data=f(measurement), d2=meaning=f(cognition);
>>
>> For d1 you need to use your hand, take out your ruler and perform the
>> measure; ("ruler" can expand to telescope, microscope, X-ray machine, MRI,
>> CT, ... and what I call SysScope (System Thinking) and CybScope (Cybernetic
>> Thinking));
>> For d2 you obtain some "ah-ha" by running the little machine inside your
>> head (most likely with outside assistant, such as, a pencil, a calculator,
>> a computer, a ChatGPT, etc.)
>>
>> Therefore, d1 is "a desire to know," d2 is "result of knowing,"
>> Information is therefore manufactured, or an emergence, of the loop of
>> inquiry, which is a capacity that the Creator installed within us.
>>
>> Russell Ackoff had a good formula:
>> Data(result of measurement) < Information < Knowledge < Understanding <
>> Wisdom;
>> I think each layer above is an emergence emerged from the self-organizing
>> circular-causalities of our brain, i.e. eigenstates at different levels.
>>
>> Merry Christamas and Happy New Year! - Jason
>> ------------------------------------
>> Jason Jixuan Hu, Ph.D.
>> Independent Research Scholar
>> Organizer: Club of REMY:  https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.clubofremy.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VuWTlGY1YpjAhCAqPaxYLJtYP4OpFbj8nrfp0xgmsWrRQVl1gcYmwyTCVHKC4_qo8cfm346FUWysdOAu1-zPlp6WfXg$ 
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>>
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>>
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>> mobile: jasonthegoodman at gmail.com
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 21, 2024 at 5:15 AM Krassimir Markov <itheaiss at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Xueshan,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the detailed answer.
>>>
>>> I will add that just as mathematics develops as (theoretical)
>>> mathematics and applied mathematics in different areas of practice, so too
>>> does information science develop as (theoretical) information science and
>>> applied information science in different areas of reality. Computer Science
>>> and Informatics develop as extensions of information science, directly
>>> related to the practice and implementation of machines for operating with
>>> data and knowledge.
>>>
>>> Therefore, I think it is justified to talk about:
>>>
>>> - information science and studies;
>>>
>>> - applied information science and studies.
>>>
>>> I have a proposal for the subject and foundations of this science, but
>>> now is not the time to start such a discussion. Perhaps I will first
>>> publish concise texts that will be available for discussion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Christophe,
>>>
>>> Of course, as it is  pointed out in 2017 in our joint paper from the
>>> FIS discussion, information is data with meaning, i.e.
>>>
>>> information = data + meaning
>>>
>>> Let's do a little transformation and transfer the "meaning" to the other
>>> side. We get:
>>>
>>> information - meaning = data
>>>
>>> Since data are reflections in the receptors of the subject, we can say
>>> that:
>>>
>>> information - meaning = reflection, in a particular case = data.
>>>
>>> This consideration allows us to say that all developments and
>>> definitions based on "information without meaning" refer to reflections, in
>>> particular - data, and do not concern the information with which subjects
>>> operate. In fact, they all rediscover or further develop parts of the
>>> Theory of Reflections.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Gordana,
>>>
>>> I think I gave in my response to Xueshan above the answer to your
>>> question "What do we want the study of information to be?"
>>>
>>> My answer to your other question, “Can we live with a plurality of
>>> notions of information?", is:
>>>
>>> - Yes, we can live with multiple definitions of information, but in fact
>>> there are not that many. In addition, some definitions define something
>>> else, but not the concept of "information", as we saw above. I will note,
>>> however, that it is difficult to find the methodological and factual
>>> shortcomings of the proposed new definitions, and this helps them to swarm.
>>>
>>> For example, regarding the publication of Stu Kaufman and Andrea Rolli,
>>> I will remember that I see in it a serious methodological flaw.
>>>
>>> I also argue " that no mathematics based on set theory can be used to
>>> deduce the diachronic emergence of adaptations in evolution". But this does
>>> not mean " that there can be no Final Theory that entails the becoming of
>>> the universe". Simply because modern mathematics has given us other tools,
>>> on the one hand, and on the other, there are a number of simulation
>>> approaches and systems that allow modeling these processes.
>>>
>>> In addition, we must remember that models are not reality itself, but
>>> its partial reflection, and therefore we cannot recreate reality through
>>> models, but we can externalize some of our ideas about it, creating
>>> corresponded models and thus make them available to other scientists
>>> who can continue further.
>>>
>>> But if we have no ideas, what do we expect our models to contain? This
>>> is exactly the case with the "becoming of the universe".
>>>
>>> If no one has any idea, why is a model expected to reveal this on its own
>>> ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>
>>> We are on the threshold of the New Year 2025.
>>>
>>> Moreover, today, 21.12.2024, is the transition day to the New Bulgarian
>>> Year 7530, which starts tomorrow (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bgkalendar.com/?lang=en__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VuWTlGY1YpjAhCAqPaxYLJtYP4OpFbj8nrfp0xgmsWrRQVl1gcYmwyTCVHKC4_qo8cfm346FUWysdOAu1-zPj1gYAT8$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bgkalendar.com/?lang=en__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Q558tG6NM4auOvNpkSnhaG3WcaPF6oRTBzEUTby2ES5aHlHvv1AO6zKAOKCxCClqC5zRL243b5927vzUsnE$>
>>> ).
>>>
>>> As the holiday season approaches, I want to express my warmest wishes
>>> for a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. May these holidays bring you
>>> peace, happiness and the opportunity to reflect on the successes and
>>> challenges of the past year. May the New Year 2025 be filled with
>>> groundbreaking discoveries, inspiring collaborations, and continued growth
>>> in all your scientific endeavors.
>>>
>>> Merry Holidays and a Happy New Year!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Warmest regards,
>>>
>>> Krassimir
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: image.png]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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