[Fis] Five Clouds over Fundamental Information Science
Eric Werner
eric.werner at oarf.org
Thu Dec 5 15:44:52 CET 2024
Dear Xueshan,
It's a bit more complicated, as indicated by my previous comment.
Best wishes,
Eric
On 12/5/24 2:30 PM, Xueshan Yan wrote:
>
> Dear Joseph,
>
> No, no, we are your students, forever. For many years, you have always
> used beautiful language and a natural scientist's perspective to
> sharply narrate every information issue, which is evident to all.
>
> Today, from a philosophical perspective, you have examined every
> question I have raised, and I am very pleased. Especially your review:
> “Hidden in Cloud 4 is the 'philosopher's stone' with which the nature
> of information can be tested. The question is whether the phenomenon
> under study is capable of effecting change.”
>
> We have exchanges over 10 years and understand each other very easily.
>
> Best wishes，
>
> Xueshan
>
> ==========================
>
> Dear Marcus,
>
> Explanation 1*: It explains the background behind my proposal for the
> concept of inforware.
>
> Explanation 2**: An inforware is divided into three levels:
> Information, Sign, and Substrate. The substrate is at the bottom level
> and is typically outside the scope of information science research.
> "ENTITY" and "AGENT" are good words, feel free to use them instead of
> worrying too much about what I said.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Xueshan
>
> ==========================
>
> Dear Eric,
>
> I really appreciate your explanation. When reviewing the different
> definitions of "information" by information scientists, we find that
> many scholars define it as "code" or "sequence". At the same time,
> when looking back at the history of the definition of genes, from the
> original concept of “gene” to “genetic material”, most molecular
> biologists prefer to use "information" instead of "gene" today.
> Therefore, I would like try to express this issue using a language of
> fundamental information science: CRISPR is a technology that edits
> base signs sequences through genetic engineering, ultimately leading
> to changes in genetic information. I don't know if this statement is
> correct.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Xueshan
>
> ==========================
>
> Dear Gordana,
>
> They are not parallel. We are not discussing the same issue.
>
> I was shocked to see Mark's statement; we all coincidentally thought
> of the root of the word "information" in English. Mark used "inf,"
> while I used "infor," and the root of the word "goods" is "ware." The
> significance of Mark's work lies in his attempt to bring computer
> science back to the path of information science. “Hardware”,
> “Software”, “Infware" – three beautiful instances of parallelism. If
> it were me, I would likely have created this new word as well. It is
> already a well-known mystery that computer science does not study
> information issues.
>
> Gordana, thank you for providing this clue.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Xueshan
>
> ==========================
>
> Dear Francesco,
>
> Your triad of meaning, information and communication is very
> interesting. Let's hear everyone's comments.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Xueshan
>
> ==========================
>
> *From:*fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> *On
> Behalf Of *joe.brenner at bluewin.ch
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 4, 2024 6:32 PM
> *To:* yxs at pku.edu.cn; FIS <fis at listas.unizar.es>
> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Five Clouds over Fundamental Information Science
>
> Dear Professor Yan,
>
> You have given us – your "students" – a very difficult assignment. To
> make it a little easier for myself, I decided to look at the different
> issues from the perspective of the ontic-epistemic distinction,
> starting with those in your title. The real problem for me, thus is
> with the two lines of the second footnote (**):
>
> Clouds
>
> On first thought, a homogeneous form constituted by water
> droplets; on a second, the very embodiment of ontic change,
> appearance, growth and disappearance, with violent exchanges of energy
> as lightning.
>
> Signs
>
> The sign is a representation, as accurate as you please, of a
> real object or process. On this basis it is essentially epistemic.
> Information, on the other hand, has both epistemic and ontic
> properties, and cannot be reduced to signs.
>
> Meaning (Cloud 1)
>
> Following the second point, information and meaning can be
> considered as two different expressions of one existence (or existence
> /tout court/), both embodying and applicable to /change./
>
> Brain or Animal Informatics (Cloud 2)
>
> This Cloud seems mainly concerned with Informatics as an
> epistemic field, essentially self-defined. I have nothing particular
> to add.
>
> Genetics as a Discipline of Informatics (Cloud 3)
>
> What is being elaborated here is a further aspect of what I have
> concluded is an epistemic domain. Bases can function as signs, if you
> will, but the phenomena of interest are, exactly, those in
> neuroscience and endocrinology and it is the ontic properties of the
> bases (residual charge, /etc./) that determine how the genetic
> material functions.
>
> Communication between Infowares
>
> Hidden in this Cloud 4 is the “philosopher’s stone” with which
> the nature of information can be tested. The question, as many have
> stated in their definitions of information, is whether the phenomenon
> under study is capable of effecting /change. /On this basis, I can
> confirm by experience that my cats (/pace/) and I communicated.
>
> Exploration of Fundamental Information Science
>
> The commonalities between in information disciplines, as
> embodied in most of the above Clouds, remain for me epistemic,
> questions of semantic modes of existence. That their “complexity and
> enormity” exist all right and have been difficult to handle in science
> and philosophy is clear. In this view, however, Cloud 2 on Meaning is
> the counterargument to Line **, which I reproduce here:
>
> “Studies focused solely on substrates *typically *(emphasis
> mine) fall under the technical or natural sciences rather than
> information science.”
>
> What this says to me is that at worst (at best?), my ontic
> approach to meaning-information is a-typical but can exist. It thus
> co-exists with the largely epistemic standard view, and this
> co-existence can be studied as an aspect of information science as
> well. I give the last word to the 5^th Century BCE Greek playwright
> Aristophanes, whose a-typical play /The Clouds /focused on problems of
> knowledge and existence (“The Thinkery”).
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Joseph
>
> Le 02.12.2024 10:09 CET, Xueshan Yan <yxs at pku.edu.cn> a écrit :
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> I have summarized five sets of puzzles faced by fundamental
> information science and called them 'clouds' ― some of which have
> been emphasized by Pedro on many occasions. I am now glade to hear
> everyone's different opinions.
>
> **
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Xueshan Yan
>
> Professor Emeritus
>
> Department of Information Management
>
> Peking University, China
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *Five Clouds over Fundamental Information Science*
>
> /Xueshan Yan/
>
> *Inforware**: Information must exist in signs, and signs must
> exist on substrates**. We define a trinity composed of
> information, sign, and substrate as an Inforware.
>
> *Four Concomitant Disciplines: *Based on the structure of an
> inforware, we have Informatics for studying information, and
> Semiotics for studying signs―the existence mode of information.
> Since communication is the transmission of information and
> computation is the processing of information, we also have another
> two fundamental disciplines: Communication Studies and Computation
> Studies. These four disciplines are concomitant; that is, if one
> is present, the other three (or more) will eventually emerge.
>
> *Cloud 1. Information and Meaning*: What is information? Since
> 1948, information scientists have been discussing it for 76 years,
> yet still cannot provide a definitive answer. What is meaning?
> Since 1825, linguists have been debating it for 200 years and
> still cannot reach a definitive conclusion. Nevertheless,
> linguistics has been established successfully. Let’s consider a
> hypothesis: if we were to suspend all discussions about the
> definition of information for three years, what else could we do?
> From a human perspective, are information and meaning two
> homogenous issues? Or are they two different expressions of one
> existence?
>
> *Cloud 2. Brain Informatics or Animal Informatics*:**It has been
> demonstrated that any organism with a brain inforware can
> communicate with others; therefore, brain informatics must exist,
> ―storing, sending, and receiving information are fundamental
> functions of the brain―, and human informatics already exists.
> Similarly, we could explore bee informatics, elephant informatics,
> and so on. Can we assume that there are as many types of animal
> informatics as there are animal species?
>
> *Cloud 3. Genetics as a Discipline of Informatics:*Cells can
> communicate. The central dogma of molecular biology describes the
> pathway of DNA→RNA→protein, through which genetic information
> flows. In this process, DNA serves as substrate, bases function as
> signs, and genomics represents informatics. If we propose that
> genetics is the most successful branch of informatics, what would
> be the response from biologists? Could a similar phenomenon also
> be observed in neuroscience and endocrinology?
>
> *Cloud 4. Communication between Inforwares*: Some speculate that
> two supramolecules can communicate with each other. But can two
> ordinary molecules communicate? Can two atoms communicate? Can two
> celestial bodies communicate? Can plants communicate with one
> another? Can different inforwares communicate across different
> levels? Is the communication between humans and cats true
> communication (language comprehension) or false communication
> (conditional reflex)?
>
> *Cloud 5. Exploration of Fundamental Information Science*: Can we
> regard fundamental information science as an exploration based on
> the inductive method, focusing on the commonalities among various
> fundamental information disciplines, especially the four
> concomitant disciplines mentioned above? The complexity and
> enormity of this venture have far exceeded anyone's imagination.
> Is it one of the most challenging disciplines to study in
> contemporary times? Or, does it not exist at all?
>
> ---------------------
>
> /*Any discipline has its own concept framework, which is why I
> coined the new term /*/Inforware/*/. For example, the computer
> science is built on the two primary concepts of hardware and
> software./
>
> /**Studies focused solely on substrates typically fall under the
> technical or natural sciences rather than information science./
>
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--
/Dr. Eric Werner, FLS
Oxford Advanced Research Foundation
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://oarf.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Xh80SJuSXm-wWU8D-JSB-mCS9jAHA2AnPIV6djjGSRw544snM6cH0n8aWdMKn68JW_b8ZYMvs4ZX41WvGpw9CNM$
/
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