[Fis] Emotional Sentience and The Tao author response

[Katherine Peil Kauffman]

Dear FIS community,

Thanks for trying on my Tao framework for size and kicking off the discussion.

Karl: You have introduced me to a whole new realm, thank you. A general comment is that your points on sorting and grouping (cycles, liaisons, and information) are all highly relevant to the patterned information in what I call Domain 0. I hope we can find common language as it concerns your natural primitives and my fundamental semantic information bit, if we are to bridge from quantity (and position) to quality (and position). Perhaps a fruitful start might be the lower five through which animals assemble their mental cartography? So much more to say, but thank you for the education your sorting experiment and papers provide.

Eric: I’d love to hear what you have to say about the dimensional architecture of Kantian Wholes, as that structural, operational, and informational closure is central to the organization of living systems – at every level of scale. Apologies for jumping topics – I get that a lot from Stu too (and indeed I chalk it up to hemispheric lateralization), but my intent was to offer examples of my use of the Tao to tether to both personal experience and various literature across disciplines. As for sitting on a mountain (versus emotionally informed acting in the world), you crack me up. But I do hope you will consider the binaries I mentioned and how appear in your personal experiences. Your earlier points about complex emotions and sociality (experienced in Domain 1), for example, flow from  the dual structure of identity rooted in dance of wholes~parts from Domain 0. Yet, when we distinguish self from other in a rigid way, (or worse, us versus them tribalism), autopilot negative emotional defenses and conflict are predictable. Think of having a lovely picnic with your significant other (up on that mountain). Everything is flowing, loving and the “we” feeling between you is palpable. Then your partner suddenly says something disrespectful, and boom – just like that – anger rears its head and your identity shifts to purely “me”. This lies at the core of why both selfishness and selflessness are unbalanced dysregulated self-states.

Joe: I’d love to hear more about setting a Kantian Whole in motion. Do you mean the dyamics at each level within a Kantian Whole? Or between the Whole and its local environment? Something else? As for the nitty gritty of how one gets from the complements in electromagnetism to the binary feelings we experience, you are right it takes a deep dive – as well taking quantum biology at face value. Personally, I suspect there are aspects of the electromagnetic force that may divide cleanly into Domains 0 and 1, but my assumption about creative interactions between them are rooted in particles like 
anyons https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anyon__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XNLxpQ5MpBeagI_SS_MahGSDa0_2lZ485q4vOZwfhfolJtNiFS0mMSTn6ht1dohIv0twYTlHCyrSn1tgxQ$  <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anyon__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XNLxpQ5MpBeagI_SS_MahGSDa0_2lZ485q4vOZwfhfolJtNiFS0mMSTn6ht1dohIv0twYTlHCyrSn1tgxQ$ > that can behave as either fermions or bosons, in altermagnetism

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://journals.aps.org/prx/pdf/10.1103/PhysRevX.12.040501__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XNLxpQ5MpBeagI_SS_MahGSDa0_2lZ485q4vOZwfhfolJtNiFS0mMSTn6ht1dohIv0twYTlHCyppIiijuA$  <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://journals.aps.org/prx/pdf/10.1103/PhysRevX.12.040501__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XNLxpQ5MpBeagI_SS_MahGSDa0_2lZ485q4vOZwfhfolJtNiFS0mMSTn6ht1dohIv0twYTlHCyppIiijuA$ > or liquid-liquid phase transitions https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0927796X23000487__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XNLxpQ5MpBeagI_SS_MahGSDa0_2lZ485q4vOZwfhfolJtNiFS0mMSTn6ht1dohIv0twYTlHCyoIzsM3wA$  <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0927796X23000487__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XNLxpQ5MpBeagI_SS_MahGSDa0_2lZ485q4vOZwfhfolJtNiFS0mMSTn6ht1dohIv0twYTlHCyoIzsM3wA$ > .

Please tell me more about your version of The Tao and your both~neither logic, and how it might relate to the primary self-not-self comparisons in the self-regulatory mechanisms I mentioned. (I hear hints of Terry Deacon’s incompleteness, that is somewhat captured by the idea of possibles that do not yet exist.) Is it something like the universal NAND gate? And thank you for the offer of luck, I will take it. For mindless self-destruction is the predictable outcome of ignorance regarding the self-regulatory function of emotion.

Gordana: Thank you for pointing out the ubiquity of natural computation, and for the updated view of algorithms – as open and creative. (I’ll share that with Stu!) I’d like to hear more about super-recursive algorithms, their role (if any) in the development of mind, and any other sage advice you might offer. 

With gratitude and kindred affection,

Kate Kauffman
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