[Fis] THE ROOTS OF fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>MODERN CIVILISATION--transformers

Wed Jan 18 04:52:04 CET 2023

It strikes me that the inherently evolutionary and creative power of the genome is based on  response to environmental conditions that rapidly respond including changes in gene frequency. This to me is an expression that does not easily fit into the reductionist   model of cell as computer. There are higher levels of response and complexity not "programed" by DNA For example in Mycorrhizal Fungal and Tree Root Functional Traits: Strategies for Integration and Future Directions Samuel A.Z. Schaffer-Morrison1 and Donald R. Zak1,2 . ...examining the gene frequency of fungi across a soil inorganic N availability gradient, Pellitier et al. (2021) observed a 

similar change in the frequency of genes encoding for enzymes providing access to organic nitrogen in

      " soil in the EM colonizing the roots of Quercus rubra (class II fungal peroxidases; Pellitier et al., 2021a).

    On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 01:47:44 AM EST, Roy Morrison <roy.morrison114 at yahoo.com> wrote:  

 It's an enormous leap to make the brain, the cell,  the brain-mind- body system and consciousness into a computer and an expression of computer dynamics. The historical use of the most currently popular machine e.g. from clockworks to digital computer is popular. Life and the cell as a Turing machine with  DNA as program is more attractive as analogy and metaphor and neglects the nature of the genome and the cell as a whole. Consciousness is a glorious analog process subject to chaotic dynamics and strange attractors and higher level genomic expressions such as Mandelbrot set all mediated by emotion and hormonal influence and both on a high level a swirl of inductive and deductive reasoning. The embrace as individual cell as computer somehow yielding life's complexity strikes me as an over simplification of genomic and cellular dynamics. It's alleged that given sufficient computing power a computer will become sentient and not just an impressive example of computing power. This remains to be seen.
Roy 

    On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 08:59:01 AM EST, Nikita Shklovskiy <nikitashk at gmail.com> wrote:  

 General description of universe turning us to 2022 Special Issue of BioSystems -to a new understanding of the phenomenon of life, based on the discovery of the language of molecular genetics and arising of computers with artificial programming languages. The problem require clear definitions. Efim Liberman defined the basis of life as a cell molecular computer, operating according to the DNA program (Liberman, 1972, Minina and Shklovskiy-Kordi, 2022). The development of the idea of the cell molecular computer led to understanding the design of the brain as a network of billions of powerful computing devices. Each of them perform the intracellular program calculation of parameters coming from the nerve receptors of sensory organs and muscular system (Liberman, 1978).  New understanding of energy and time costs for any calculations made it possible to declare a possibility of the influence of the calculation process on the calculated problem and to recognize the Planck's constant as a value that determines the limits of natural calculations, as well as measurement procedures limits (Liberman, 1979). The hypothesis of the presence of quantum computing processes (both intracellular, based on the "computing environment" of the cytoskeleton, and at the entire organism level), is grounded on the search for possibilities to develop the power of information flows, adequate to the phenomenon of consciousness's, which bicoming the fundamental quantum costruction. (Liberman,1983). Liberman’s materialistic definition of self-consciousness phenomenon is "a computer display like, united presentation of reality" build from collected in a single space-time pattern the multidimensional and dynamic characteristics of information generated by the five senses. The instruments for body sensation and automatic control of muscles for a human body with almost a hundred degrees of freedom, have to be supplied by the information flow in the same pattern. So, “ our cognitive machinery” becoming the real part of the nature
Вс, 15 янв. 2023 г. в 04:03, Koichiro Matsuno <cxq02365 at nifty.com>:

January 12, 2023 6:39 PM; Ted Goranson <tedgoranson at me.com> wrote: I suppose any notion we have of object, agent and sequence are from our cognitive machinery and not from nature.

  In addition to the wiring of our brains, nature of itself is also involved in its own wiring with use of a lot of reaction cycles functioning as the organizational cohesive factors. Each of them remains invisible to us unless artifacts of human origin, e.g., carbon labelling, are allowed to intervene. In short, the organizational cohesion of a concrete particular nature is sought within the lasting production sequence of an indefinite implication. The product from the preceding production is constantly pulled into the immediately following downstream production while repeating the cycle. Organizational cohesion as an integration of both being pulled into and pulling in goes along with the cycle. 

  Best,

  Koichiro

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