[Fis] End of the NY Lecture. Note of 02/02/23.: Intertwining, citing Deacon

[joe.brenner at bluewin.ch]

Dear Francesco,
Last winter, I missed this important message. You wrote: " Terry, the great Terry for me, declared: " But referential circularities (...) intertwine epistemological and ontological relationships in ways that add a level of incompleteness that cannot be avoided when living and mental interpretative processes are considered". So the axiomatic theories are all more or less probable, they depend on the asymmetries of the different "form fields", but we cannot do without them."
Cognitive "intertwining" of the parts of real processes and the movements involved should be no less familiar than tying one's shoelaces. From now on, consideration of epistemic and  ontic properties, and of living and interpretative processes, independently of one another is cannot be tolerated. "Incompleteness" is also not soemthing fixed but an indication of a changing relation, in a phenomenon, between more or less actually complete and potentially incomplete and vice versa. Information tracks these changes. 
I hope you are now on good terms with your editor and can again give some attention to this issue.
Best wishes to all for the Conference,
Joseph 
----Original Message----
 
>From : 13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com
 
Date : 02/02/2023 - 06:33 (E)
 
To : jerry_lr_chandler at icloud.com
 
Cc : pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com, fis at listas.unizar.es
 
Subject : Re: [Fis] End of the NY Lecture / The Greater Sea
 
 
 
  
    Dear Jerry,  
  
  
    I have stated several times that Shannon's entropy is only a conventional, factual and improper measure of information (which in my opinion is taking or giving shape), because in fact it is nothing more than a given calculation based on a binary ideology. However, the entropy of thermodynamics is also the opposite of information, since it is dis-information due to confusion or cadaveric balance which is molecular disorder or dis-organization, coinciding with the loss of information: review the principle of order of Boltzmann or the conclusions of the "devil of Maxwell", it would not hurt. While neg-entropy (or rather energy taken with a negative sign, because entropy does not drop below zero), coincides with the order that is extracted from the environment. And, Schrodinger declares that the organism attracts a flow of negative energy, to compensate for the increase in entropy that living produces. Terry, the great terry for me, declared: " But referential circularities (...) intertwine epistemological and ontological relationships in ways that add a level of incompleteness that cannot be avoided when living and mental interpretative processes are considered". So the axiomatic theories are all more or less probable, they depend on the asymmetries of the different "form fields", but we cannot do without them. Now I'm leaving it and I would like not to receive any more questions, because I have other things to write, otherwise my editor will lose patience. A hug. Francis. 
   
Caro Jerry,   
  
  
    ho affermato più volte che l'entropia di Shannon  e solo una misura convenzionale, fattuale e impropria dell'informazione  
   
  
  
   
     (che secondo me è un prendere o dare forma), perché di fatto non è altro che un calcolo-dato basato su una ideo-logica binaria.  
   
   
     Tuttavia, anche l'entropia della termodinamica è il contrario dell'informazione, poichè è dis-informazione dovuta alla confusione o all'equilibrio  
   
   
     cadaverico che è disordine o dis-organizzazione molecolare,  coincidente con la perdita di informazione: ripassarsi il principio  
   
   
     d'ordine di Boltzmann o le conclusioni del "diavoletto di Maxwell", non farebbe male. Mentre la neg-entropia (o meglio energia  
   
   
     presa  col segno negativo, perché l'entropia non scende sotto lo zero),  coincide con l'ordine che si estrae dall'ambiente. 
   
   
     E, Schrodinger dichiara che l'organismo attrae su di sé un flusso di energia negativa, per compensare l'aumento di entropia che produce vivendo. 
   
   
     Terry, il per me grande terry, ha dichiarato: "  
    Ma le circolarità referenziali (...) intrecciano relazioni epistemo-
   
   
    logiche 
    e ontologiche in modi 
    che aggiungono un livello di incompletezza che non può essere 
   
   
    evitato quando si considerano 
    i processi interpretativi viventi e mentali". 
   
   
       Quindi le teorie assiomatiche sono sono tutte più o meno probabili, dipendono dalle asimmetrie dei diversi "campi di forma", ma non  
   
   
     se ne può fare a meno. Ora la pianto e  desidererei non ricevere altre domande, perchè ho altre cose da scrivere, altrimenti il mio editore  
   
   
     perde la pazienza. Un abbraccio. Francesco. 
   
   
    
   
  
 
 
 
  
    Il giorno mer 1 feb 2023 alle ore 21:27 Jerry LR Chandler < 
   jerry_lr_chandler at icloud.com> ha scritto: 
   
  
  
   
     Dear Francesco, List:  
    
     
      
      
       
         On Feb 1, 2023, at 11:12 AM, Francesco Rizzo < 
        13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com> wrote: 
       
       
       
        The beauties and "possible properties" or the "imponderable variables" of things or people cannot be understood by any exclusively mathematical logic or formula. "No non-poetic description of reality can be complete" (John D.Barrow). Therefore, no more presumptions when we want to approach the understanding  of the natural and human universe. Love is a great virtue, and an equally great scientific category.
       
      
      
     
     
       What are the relationship, if I may ask you and other members, between the implications and inferences of this paragraph and the deep dependence of Shannon information theory (as well thermodynamics) on Axiomatic Theories?   
     
     
      
     
     
       More specifically, should axiomatic systems be augmented with signal regularity?   Would this address Ted’s concerns at a significant level? 
     
     
      
     
     
       Cheers 
     
     
       Jerry  
     
     
    
   
  
 
 
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