[Fis] Fwd: Re: TR: How Molecules Became Signs. LIFE CYCLES
Francesco Rizzo
13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com
Mon Mar 28 15:34:08 CEST 2022
Caro Joseph,
se pensi che io sia fondamentalista Ti sbagli e me ne dispiace. La mia
concezione economica è contenuta in circa quaranta libri. Uno di questi ho
avuto
il piacere d'inviarteLo. E se non ricordo male, anche Tu hai
riconosciuto in una mail la concretezza realistica del mio pensiero
onto-epistemo-logico. In ogni caso, ho sempre apprezzato il Tuo pensiero
pensante, tanto da farlo mio.
Un affettuoso abbraccio.
Francesco
Dear Joseph,
if you think I'm a fundamentalist You're wrong and I'm sorry. My economic
conception is contained in about forty books. One of these I had the
pleasure of sending you. And if I remember correctly, you too have
recognized in an email the realistic concreteness of my
onto-epistemological-logical thinking. In any case, I have always
appreciated your thinking thought, making it mine.
An affectionate hug.
Francesco.
> ----Message d'origine----
> De : christophe.menant en hotmail.fr
> Date : 25/03/2022 - 15:53 (CEST)
> À : joe.brenner en bluewin.ch, fis en listas.unizar.es
> Objet : Re: [Fis] TR: How Molecules Became Signs. LIFE CYCLES
>
> Dear Joseph,
> Thanks for your comments. Let me *answer them in your text.*
>
> ------------------------------
> *De :* joe.brenner en bluewin.ch <joe.brenner en bluewin.ch>
> *Envoyé :* jeudi 24 mars 2022 10:13
> *À :* "fis" <fis en listas.unizar.es>; Christophe Menant <
> christophe.menant en hotmail.fr>
> *Objet :* Fwd: [Fis] TR: How Molecules Became Signs. LIFE CYCLES
>
> Dear Christophe and Dear All,
>
> As usual, you have expressed clearly the relation of your concepts to life
> cycles and some of their constraints. I still would very much welcome your
> views and those of others regarding some changes and additions to this
> picture.
> As I look at it, your system does require input of information and energy,
> but how can it then be called autonomous and self-contained?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *The Meaning Generator System requires input information and delivers
> output information. And it requires energy to be functional. But it is not
> autonomous or self-contained. The MGS is not an autonomous system. In the
> post “autonomy” is introduced to illustrate what could the “maintain
> status” constraint lead to when applied to Benard cells. They would then be
> running “by themselves” and so display some sort of autonomy. As we know,
> this is not the case in today physics. It is however worth noticing that a
> system submitted to constraints can introduce the concepts of agency and
> autonomy:- Agent: an identifiable entity submitted to internal constraints
> and capable of actions for the satisfaction of the constraints. -
> Autonomous agent: an agent able to act to satisfy its internal constraints
> by its own.More on this at**https://philpapers.org/archive/MENCSA-2.pdf*
> <https://philpapers.org/archive/MENCSA-2.pdf>
>
>
> * The concept of “self-contained” was not part of my post.* Why should a
> simplistic physical process, like that of Benard cells, be a valid model
> for complex biological and cognitive processes?
>
> *The Benard cells have been introduced here only to illustrate an
> organization of matter in a far from thermodynamic equilibrium status. They
> cannot of course be a model for*
> *biological and cognitive processes.*
> However, when you start to talk about "a natural trend to local complexity
> increase" I completely agree. One of the features of this domain is the
> presence of *close * to equilibrium states, as well as a dynamic change
> between actual and potential ones. The existence of the potential for
> development in a certain direction rather than another can only have come
> from prior states in the process.
> Perhaps even more iconoclastic and heretical, should one talk of life *cycles
> * at all? No real process comes back to exactly the same point from which
> it started, and cognitive/social processes have the capacity for
> regression.
>
>
>
>
> *Why not look at "life cycle" as illustrating the phases existing during
> the being of the entity? Living entities and artefacts are submitted to the
> following phases: Introduction-Growth-Maturity-Decline-End of Life (true
> for humans and for computers)* I have suggested talking about spirals,
> not to be "difficult", but to introduce an absolute minimum new formulation
> for discussion. Pedro looks ahead to something like this by implication in
> his next to last paragraph, on communication.
>
> *Ok for the spirals including the next generations of entities.*
>
> Best wishes,
> Joseph
>
> ----Message d'origine----
> De : christophe.menant en hotmail.fr
> Date : 23/03/2022 - 14:46 (CEST)
> À : fis en listas.unizar.es
> Objet : [Fis] TR: How Molecules Became Signs. LIFE CYCLES
>
>
> Dear All
>
> Our recent discussions on information, constraint and meaning brought back
> to my mind an IS4SI 2017 presentation on a close subject (
> https://sciforum.net/manuscripts/4033/manuscript.pdf
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsciforum.net%2Fmanuscripts%2F4033%2Fmanuscript.pdf&data=04%7C01%7C%7C953c8ec08e654cf7f13408da0d76a065%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637837100397493438%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=KvXE1kLpfsMSXEYHH%2F7VlhbZ%2BatlfNNJZXvN2qmsjso%3D&reserved=0>
> ), with some link to life cycle.
> It was about extending to a pre-biotic world and to a possible post human
> one the modeling of meaning generation for constraint satisfaction (here
> under).
> For a pre-biotic world the focus is on the locality of a constraint in an
> ubiquitist physico-chemical world. The idea is to consider the possibility
> for a local far from thermodynamic equilibrium status to maintain itself. A
> kind of local Benard Tourbillon maintaining itself, by itself (and so
> introduce autonomy in the process). The constraint applied to the local
> entity is then “maintain the far from equilibrium status”. Where would such
> a constraint come from? Perhaps we could introduce it as a consequence of a
> natural trend to local complexity increase in the evolution of our
> universe.
> For the post-human side, the focus is about a better management of our
> “anxiety limitation constraint”. The subject of anxiety limitation is an
> unpleasant one, but I feel it is unavoidable as it shares an evolutionary
> nature with our self-consciousness. In other words it is what makes us
> humans with anxiety limitation driving many of our mental states (much more
> than assumed so far).
> Overall, this could also be looked at as "life cycle of local constraints"
> in our universe.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *De :* Fis <fis-bounces en listas.unizar.es> de la part de Pedro C. Marijuán
> <pedroc.marijuan en gmail.com>
> *Envoyé :* lundi 21 mars 2022 20:06
> *À :* fis en listas.unizar.es <fis en listas.unizar.es>
> *Objet :* Re: [Fis] How Molecules Became Signs. LIFE CYCLES
>
> Dear List,
>
> Some comments on the recent exchanges that I will try to connect with the
> informational centrality of "life cycles".
>
> The input-output view, apparently common to stimulus/response and to
> physical interactions (Howard), forgets a relevant characteristic of life:
> it does not follow blindly the requisites of its boundary conditions, its
> inputs, but has inner drives (conatus principle for Spinoza) that impels it
> to circumvent adverse conditions and to change its own structure and
> dynamics so to keep ahead with the potential advancement of the life cycle.
> The inanimate is inert and just follows the laws of nature, the animate
> establishes its own lawfulness. Obviously we, ourselves, are not restricted
> to input/output in our daily life. Most of our behavior stems from inner
> needs or drives, from impulses that overall grant us a tentative fit
> withing our environment and our social groups. Not different from all the
> other forms of life.
>
> The life cycle is essential in signaling science, in bacteriology, in
> microbial ecology, in multicellular development & specialization, in
> epigenesis, in ecological disciplines, social sciences, daily life...
>
> In our societies, we use sketches or records of our life cycles in
> progress: short "bios", CVs, biographies, etc. In order to fruitfully
> communicate and understand the other party we need to have some idea on the
> age, sex, ideas, professional background, family... how the life cycle has
> progressed. And last but not least we compose fine obituaries at the end.
> That it becomes an embarrassing theme for formal approaches does not
> diminishes at all the centrality of life cycle in relation with the sources
> and destinies of communication processes and the subsequent elaboration of
> meaning. Well, we can make a rough sketch of the communication process as
> occurs in life, prune it of all its complex aspects of inner drives &
> cycle, and then apply it as stimulus/response to everything. Not serious. A
> bland metaphor.
>
> How molecules may support that type of life communication? The simplest,
> most consistent way relates to prokaryotic cells and their signaling
> systems. All further down we may speculate on protobiology is just that,
> speculations on a scientifically unsolved matter.
>
> Regards---Pedro
>
> El 21/03/2022 a las 18:42, joe.brenner en bluewin.ch escribió:
>
> Dear All,
>
> Karl’s note below, and that part of it which refers to Howard’s below,
> refers to aspects of my approach to logic, information and reality. They
> deserve some responses and clarifications, the order (in this case) does
> not have any particular significance.
>
> 1. 1. The intent of the statement “all logical statements being
> true, etc.”, relevant only for standard logics, is not clear to me in this
> context.
>
> 2. 2. On the other hand, my non-propositional, non-truth-functional
> logic of processes is a way of seeing *how *(my emphasis) things interact.
>
> 3. 3. I do not think we are talking about “the same interdependence
> of parts and wholes” unless you can agree that interdependence means that
> parts and wholes share some of each other’s properties, to a different and
> changing degree.
>
> 4. 4. The reference to the beginning of an interaction is very good
> since it avoids reification of an “interaction”. One could simply say that
> interactions imply transformations, more or less continuous.
>
> 5. 5. The concept introduced of exactitude as a property of
> interactions, leading to tautologies, is a difficult one for me to grasp. I
> tend to avoid tautologies like the plague, and my interactions are far from
> exact.
>
> 6. 6. In this context, we have a core definition of information as
> anything a receiver can interpret. The concepts of a receiver and
> information, however, appear to be everything that participates in a
> real-world process, at all levels of reality, in other words, everything.
> There is a certain attraction to seeing “everything” as information, but it
> is ultimately a form of idealism I for one cannot accept.
>
> 7. 7. A meaningful sentence for me is that information is an
> “artefact of the stage of our dramas.” I would say that it is built on the
> existence of entities (with different densities, OK) moving between
> actuality and potentiality. I would be interested in seeing if either of
> our authors could integrate this statement in *their* systems.
>
> Thank you and best wishes,
>
> Joseph
>
> ----Message d'origine----
> De : karl.javorszky en gmail.com
> Date : 19/03/2022 - 17:31 (CEST)
> À : howlbloom en aol.com
> Cc : fis en listas.unizar.es, christophe.menant en hotmail.fr,
> joe.brenner en bluewin.ch
> Objet : Re: [Fis] Fwd: TR: RE: How Molecules Became Signs. One Way Out.
>
> Oomph this does have, Howard. An idea came to me on reading this
> explanation of what happened right after the big bang.
> All logical statements being true, none of them is true.
> Some of the melee will become differentiated, on whichever property. In
> your model, these are leptons etc mainly along magnetism.
> This fits all very well as the first chapters of a book for young adults.
> My contribution would come later, as we discuss the ideally running stable
> middle stage of the contraption, where and on which we demonstrate that and
> how the cogs fit together. Maybe a polite invitation to Joseph to attach
> words to concepts that are the background to what we all 3 (actually, all
> of fis) try to put to words and concepts and numbers and drawings.
>
> Namely that information is an artefact of the stage of our dramas. It is
> built on the difference between densities space vs matter. There are
> thresholds below and above which the concept of unit changes. We could
> figure that out once we clearly see how things interact.
>
> Memory functions like genetic only in the best of ideal circumstances. So
> in my world the interactions are that exact that one may talk about
> tautologies.
>
> In the beginning of the interaction or during transformations of it, there
> are the pictures Joseph and you paint.
>
> In my impression, we talk about the same interdependence of many parts of
> a whole.
>
> Karl
>
>
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2022, 01:45 Howard Bloom, < howlbloom en aol.com> wrote:
>
> The Evolution of Information
>
>
> Most of us think that information is a relatively new phenomenon, limited
> to human kind, computers, and perhaps to animals. But that view is wrong.
> Information reared its head in the first 1032 second of the big bang. It
> got its start when space first told matter how to move. That was a
> communicational exchange. An informational exchange. And information
> showed itself in that first 1032 second after the Big Bang when the
> first “things” precipitated from a sheet of space and time. Those first
> things were leptons and quarks. And quarks have a peculiar property. They
> cannot survive on their own. So they rushed to find each other and to gang
> up in groups of two or three. But not just any partners would do. Each
> quark was born with the equivalent of an etiquette book, an instruction
> manual telling it which fellow quarks to rush toward and which quarks to
> avoid. Each quark was born picky. Each quark was born with a vocabulary
> called attraction and repulsion. Each quark read the signals from another
> quark and either sped away or glommed together in a permanent embrace.
> Yes, quarks met others and either rushed away or sped toward each other to
> embrace. How did quarks “know” which to do? They read each other’s
> signals. They read each other’s electromagnetic and weak force. Then they
> acted on those signals. In other words, quarks exchanged information. In
> my book The God Problem, How a Godless Cosmos Creates, I give a simple
> definition of information. Information, says the God Problem, is anything
> a receiver can interpret. How do we know when a receiver is getting the
> message? We watch the receiver’s response. In other words, stimulus and
> response—the two things that BF Skinner felt were the core of
> psychology--are vital to the observation of information. Quarks fleeing
> from each other or flying together were responding to the cues of other
> quarks. They were interpreting a stimulus and producing a response. They
> were communicative. They were social. And they were informational. Those
> 13.8-billion-year-old social quarks, by the way, are alive inside of you
> and me today. Quark threesomes are your protons and neutrons. But there’s
> more. Informational processes of the sort we see in quarks appear at every
> stage of the cosmos’ evolution. They appear in attraction and repulsion.
> Information, attraction, and repulsion showed up 380,000 years after the
> big bang in electrons and protons. Electrons and protons read each other’s
> electromagnetic signals and came together as atoms. Attraction, repulsion
> and information appeared in the sweepings of cosmic dust that would someday
> be called galaxies. Information and attraction showed up in the form of
> gravity, signals that change based on a body’s mass. Information and
> attraction appeared in the gravity balls that would form stars, planets and
> moons. Informaion, attraction, and repulsion appeared when atoms read each
> others signals and came together in the first molecules. And they
> information, attraction, and repulsion are alive in every macromolecule
> that would become a part of life. Molecules communicate with each other
> via electromagnetism and either attract or repel. Information is the
> backbone of the evolution of the universe. And information is the essence
> of the gatherings of matter that think of themselves as you and me.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karl Javorszky <karl.javorszky en gmail.com>
> To: Joseph Brenner <joe.brenner en bluewin.ch>
> Cc: fis <fis en listas.unizar.es>; Christophe Menant <
> christophe.menant en hotmail.fr>
> Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2022 6:57 am
> Subject: Re: [Fis] Fwd: TR: RE: How Molecules Became Signs. One Way Out.
>
> Yes, this is absolutely correct
> *Meaningful information is reality in potential form*
>
> *Congratulations! *
>
>
> joe.brenner en bluewin.ch < joe.brenner en bluewin.ch> schrieb am Do., 17. März
> 2022, 11:34:
>
> Dear Christophe and All,
>
> In his note, reproduced below, Christophe provides an interim answer to my
> first response to his of the same day (March 13). In looking at the
> relation between Information and Meaning, he looked forward (as I certainly
> do) to further input by Terry regarding the potential of information as
> meaning and the process of emergence. (One should perhaps better write
> information_as_meaning.) In the meantime, I offer my own interpretation
> from my recent (2020) book with Andrei Igamberdiev:
>
> "I summarized the concept developed in LIR (Logic in Reality) in the
> following points:
>
> 1. Information generation and transfer occur in nature as a natural
> process that is constituted by and requires energy.
> 2. Information is present throughout nature, but its conversion to
> meaning requires organisms capable of recursive processing of it.
> 3. Meaning is constituted by all the information valuable to a
> living organism for its survival, reproduction and well-being.
> 4. Information processes follow principles applicable to energy and
> energetic processes in general
>
> Many authors have noted the complexity of information and the difficulty
> of giving a ‘single, clear’ definition of it. Attempts to do so are typical
> of standard substance ontologies, where firm definitions – identities - are
> automatically given preference. The failure of such attempts suggests that
> a major categorial error is being made. I therefore made the following
> lapidary statement:
>
> *Meaningful information is reality in potential form.*
>
> It is derived from the Lupasco/LIR conception of consciousness which
> basically looks at the real dialectical interactions in and between
> internal and external, and internalizing and externalizing processes as
> they move between potentiality and actuality.
>
> I suggest that the above can be placed in relation to Christophe's
> Systemic Theory of Meaning, most recently of March 2020, (his reference
> MENITA-7 below), which constitutes the primarily epistemological part of a
> more complete theory embodying my ontological ideas as well.
> These fit well, at least in my view, with Christophe's treatment of
> anxiety in which potential states are critical, also for emergence.
>
> Thank you and best wishes,
> Joseph
>
> *De :* Christophe Menant <christophe.menant en hotmail.fr>
> *Envoyé :* dimanche 13 mars 2022 18:26
> *À :*joe.brenner en bluewin.ch <joe.brenner en bluewin.ch>
> *Objet :* RE: RE: [Fis] How Molecules Became Signs. One Way Out. OFF-LINE
> for one point
>
> Joseph,
> We can agree that a process transforms an input into an output.
> Reverse engineering, as I know it, is a tool to improve processes. We
> know what we want at the output. We look at how the process builds it in
> order to see if it is the best way to do so (other ways may exist and be
> better).
> The output is then the starting point. It needs to be clearly defined and
> understood to address possible improvements of the process that builds it.
> Our case is about an evolutionary process that transforms meaningless
> states present in a-biotic matter into meaningful states present in living
> matter. We need there a precise definition of what is expected as output of
> the process (meaningful information) in order to look at how the
> evolutionary process may have produced it.
>
> Best
> Christophe
> ------------------------------
> *De :*joe.brenner en bluewin.ch <joe.brenner en bluewin.ch>
> *Envoyé :* dimanche 13 mars 2022 15:12
> *À :*christophe.menant en hotmail.fr <christophe.menant en hotmail.fr>
> *Objet :* Re: RE: [Fis] How Molecules Became Signs. One Way Out. OFF-LINE
> for one point
>
> Before giving a full response to your very promising note, please let me
> ask you one question about reverse engineering: is it really necessary to
> know the *outcome *of the process, which may be difficult or impossible?
> If Information IS Meaning, then the relative weight of actual and potential
> defines the probability of an outcome, not the outcome itself. Qu'est-ce
> que tu en dit?
>
> Best,
> Joseph
>
> ----Message d'origine----
> De : christophe.menant en hotmail.fr
> Date : 13/03/2022 - 14:46 (CEST)
> À : joe.brenner en bluewin.ch
> Cc : fis en listas.unizar.es, deacon en berkeley.edu
> Objet : RE: [Fis] How Molecules Became Signs. One Way Out
>
> Thanks Joseph for your position.
>
> If I understand you well:
> 1) There is information and meaning in our world (I&M).
> 2) There is no information nor meaning in an a-biotic/inert world.
> 3) In that a-biotic/inert world there is only “potential for information
> as meaning”.
> 4) Information is defined in the process of its emergence from some
> energetic ground.
>
> In addition, I feel we can say that:
> a) I&M can be defined (https://philpapers.org/rec/MENITA-7
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphilpapers.org%2Frec%2FMENITA-7&data=04%7C01%7C%7C953c8ec08e654cf7f13408da0d76a065%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637837100397493438%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=a8ceJWTsxKVPbJZgAJjLC3gvtiC%2FIzOtbDWu4Ur7QpE%3D&reserved=0>
> ).
> b) Having from Terry his definitions for I&M would allow a better
> understanding of the “potential for information as meaning” and of the
> “process of emergence”.
> This is about the well known reverse engineering activity where the
> outcome of a process is available, and when we look for some understanding
> about the process itself. The more we know about the outcome of the
> process, the more we can pretend understanding the process.
> Here we need to clearly know the outcome of the process. We need
> definitions for I&M by Terry. Their availability is needed to look at
> understanding the “potential for information as meaning” and the “process
> of emergence”.
>
> All the best
> Christophe
>
> ------------------------------
> *De :*joe.brenner en bluewin.ch <joe.brenner en bluewin.ch>
> *Envoyé :* dimanche 13 mars 2022 11:51
> *À :*christophe.menant en hotmail.fr <christophe.menant en hotmail.fr>
> *Cc :*fis en listas.unizar.es <fis en listas.unizar.es>; deacon en berkeley.edu <
> deacon en berkeley.edu>
> *Objet :* Re: [Fis] How Molecules Became Signs. One Way Out
>
> Dear Friends and Colleagues,
>
> There is one way out of the dilemma which has not been directly refuted.
> When Christophe and others ask if can we talk of information in an a-biotic
> or pre-biotic world, if information means something actual, present, the
> answer is no. If one asks instead did the *potential *for information
> as meaning exist, the answer for me is yes.
>
> An additional statement must be added, otherwise the above is no more than
> a trivial tautology. It is that information is defined in the process of
> its emergence from some energetic ground. Since no process, nothing *in
> process* is complete, complete and *incomplete *parts of the process are
> present simultaneously and dynamically. The locus of this "nascent"
> information is the detailed physico-chemical structure of the living
> entities involved and their non-living constituents. These or parts of them
> move from actual to potential and *vice versa *and this movement is what
> ultimately defines their meaning.
>
> One reading of the above is that I have given a new interpretation of the
> nature of a sign. I would gladly accept this, provided it can be
> subsequently decided whether or not the concept of sign adds further
> information. It may not.
>
> Thank you and best wishes,
> Joseph
>
>
>
> ----Message d'origine----
> De : christophe.menant en hotmail.fr
> Date : 13/03/2022 - 00:02 (CEST)
> À : deacon en berkeley.edu, fis en listas.unizar.es
> Objet : [Fis] How Molecules Became Signs
>
> Dear Friends,
> that war is a horrible drama for innocent civilians. And I agree with your
> comments.
> Our FIS discussions cannot bring much help to that human drama, but our
> tentative analysis of what is “information” may somehow lead to a better
> understanding of human motivations guide behaviors.
> Let me add another comment to Terry’s work.
>
> Dear Terry,
> In addition to my Feb 23 post I would appreciate some information on parts
> of your paper I may not have understood that well.
> Regarding the concept of information, you consider that information in a
> pragmatic-functional sense can be understood in terms of molecular
> evolution.
> This brings to consider that “information” is present in an a-biotic or
> pre-biotic world (a purely molecular world). Such pre-biotic world has
> existed before the emergence of life in our universe. But can we talk of
> information and meaning, of signs, in such a world? How should they be
> understood in a purely material world devoid of living entities?
> As said, it would be nice if you could clarify these points by making
> available definitions for information, meaning and sign in such an a-biotic
> world. This would allow a better understanding of your starting point.
> Also, I do not see that well using the Peircean term of “Interpretant” for
> an inert world. We know that the Interpretant (the meaning) needs an
> Interpreter (the meaning generator). So introducing Interpretants in your
> paper also brings to introduce Interpreters in an inert world. Your
> sentence “In Peircean terms, this amounts to asking what sort of molecular
> system is competent to produce the Interpretants” is equivalent to: “what
> sort of molecular system is competent to generate meanings”. I’m not sure
> that meaning generation by a molecular system in a purely material and
> inert world can be clearly understood by today science or philosophy. And
> I do not remember Peirce theory of sign being about inert matter. Could you
> tel us more about your position on these subject?
> Thanks again for your time
> Christophe
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsicuz.unizar.es%2Finformacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas&data=04%7C01%7C%7C953c8ec08e654cf7f13408da0d76a065%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637837100397493438%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=B8jVADZFdnHlBu43YLOGkJMPvtYk8yk0dkRZRRDqVEg%3D&reserved=0>
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> INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
>
> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por
> la Universidad de Zaragoza.
> Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el
> siguiente enlace:
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