[Fis] [External Email] Re: Wake up call. Intelligence Science

Stanley N Salthe ssalthe at binghamton.edu
Sat May 15 06:09:15 CEST 2021 

Karl -- I think that you have touched upon an interesting way to suggest
the meaning and effect of poetry. Since it is not concerned with
presenting factual or useful information, we may well search for a
raison d'etre of poetry.  It is, I think, a way of eliciting understandings
that are not available by way of everyday language use, but which many of
us had some more direct way of engaging when we were young
at certain ages.  So poetry may be viewed as a technique for eliciting
feelings by way of providing guidance through unusual imagery, which
may be evoked verbally.  This supposes that the reader of poetry is
seriously engaged -- a condition of the 'soul' requiring some isolation
from the busy world of practical information exchanges. Poetry 'informs' us
by eiicting, or drawing out, feelings, which can be imputed to (some)
'serious' music as well.  Thank you for asking this question!
STAN

On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 3:50 PM Stanley N Salthe <ssalthe en binghamton.edu>
wrote:

> Karl -- I think that you have touched upon an interesting way to suggest
> the meaning and effect of poetry. Since it is not concerned with
> presenting factual or useful information, we may well search for a
> raison d'etre of poetry.  It is, I think, a way of eliciting understandings
> that are not available by way of everyday language use, but which many of
> us had some more direct way of engaging when we were young
> at certain ages.  So poetry may be viewed as a technique for eliciting
> feelings by way of providing guidance through unusual imagery, which
> may be evoked verbally.  This supposes that the reader of poetry is
> seriously engaged -- a condition of the 'soul' requiring some isolation
> from the busy world of practical information exchanges. Poetry 'informs'
> us by eiicting, or drawing out, feelings, which can be imputed to (some)
> 'serious' music as well.  Thank you for asking this question!
> STAN
>
> On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 10:03 AM Karl Javorszky <karl.javorszky en gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I did not dare to evaluate the positive connotations to poetry poetic
>> rhetorically lanced.
>> I'd be honored to feel a sympathy from you.
>> In fact, it is not that easy to sell a solution to a problem that the
>> customer doesn't recognize he has. One may in such a situation digress into
>> allegory and chiseled haiku. The customer needs an inner education, and
>> needs to be seduced into restarting thinking by means of cortical complexes
>> which he had last time coordinated at the age of 5 6 or 7 years.
>> Would you tell me, please, in such words as you choose, what I am trying
>> to say? This would help me tremendously. I am longing for a conservation.
>> Karl
>>
>>
>> Stanley N Salthe <ssalthe en binghamton.edu> schrieb am Do., 13. Mai 2021,
>> 15:47:
>>
>>> Karl -- As a sometime/occasional poet, I find your statement (if not a
>>> joke) 'interesting'. Is 'poetic' derogatory because
>>> poetic productions are often indirect, vague, ironic, nugatory?
>>> STAN
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 7:57 AM Karl Javorszky <karl.javorszky en gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Stan,
>>>>
>>>> Poetic is a derogatory term (in context information theory)?
>>>>
>>>> Karl
>>>>
>>>> Stanley N Salthe <ssalthe en binghamton.edu> schrieb am Mi., 12. Mai
>>>> 2021, 16:18:
>>>>
>>>>> Karl wrote:  What Joseph says is that the system of rational
>>>>> relations leaves something necessarily aside, which is not accessible by
>>>>> its methods. The background to rational thinking is of course irrational.
>>>>> There is something, besides, alongside, around the system created by
>>>>> rational thoughts, and how this relates to that what we can clearly
>>>>> understand is what Philosophy centres on.
>>>>> S: There is Poetic Thinking.
>>>>> STAN
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, May 12, 2021 at 6:40 AM Karl Javorszky <
>>>>> karl.javorszky en gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Comments on Joe Brenner: Information in Operation: Probability
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once again, Joseph’s train of thought is a textbook example of the
>>>>>> truism, that Philosophy is the mother of all sciences, and that one can
>>>>>> recognise (a part) of philosophic sentences as true, if their content is
>>>>>> being observed in her daughters’ contextual framework, too. Those
>>>>>> divinations within the realm, where there are unanswered questions, which
>>>>>> result in empirical verification, are commonly understood to be true.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What Joseph says is that the system of rational relations leaves
>>>>>> something necessarily aside, which is not accessible by its methods. The
>>>>>> background to rational thinking is of course irrational. There is
>>>>>> something, besides, alongside, around the system created by rational
>>>>>> thoughts, and how this relates to that what we can clearly understand is
>>>>>> what Philosophy centres on. Adorno criticised Wittgenstein’s refusal to
>>>>>> deal with the inexact, saying that the job of a philosopher is to address
>>>>>> that, what is unknown, not to describe the grammar of that, what is already
>>>>>> known. Joseph speaks about that, what was hopelessly inexplicable in
>>>>>> Wittgenstein’s time. At that time, cataloguing, systematising and
>>>>>> regulating that what was known was a necessary step to consolidate and to
>>>>>> serve as a basis for the next step.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The general observations by Joseph about the landscape of the unknown
>>>>>> treat the subject in terms of probability and countability. His philosophic
>>>>>> thoughts have already given birth to a daughter-science, of which the name
>>>>>> is not yet decided, but many will recognise familiar features of the
>>>>>> new-born.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Advancing from the basis laid down by Wittgenstein, knowledge gained
>>>>>> from insights into the grammar and syntax of logical sentences has led the
>>>>>> technical daughter to experiment with demonstrative examples of probability
>>>>>> and countability. Results from the workshop support the design concepts
>>>>>> from the creatives. In fact, the known and the unknown have to interact, as
>>>>>> we continue living in a world that consists of foregrounds and backgrounds,
>>>>>> which at times can be interchanged. The relation of the background to the
>>>>>> foreground may remain a philosophical mystery forever, but systematically
>>>>>> exchanging the background-foreground properties observed on an experimental
>>>>>> population set free in its natural habitat shows that there are laws of
>>>>>> interactions between the two. These touch on probability and countability.
>>>>>> Seen from the inside, it is very hard to decide, which tools of prediction
>>>>>> one uses when observing predictable periodic changes: are these the
>>>>>> positions, the masses involved, their speed, their history or their
>>>>>> personal properties? The property of being *so many* is one among
>>>>>> many other determinants. If the background is axiomatic to the foreground,
>>>>>> there is no information, as Joseph points out. Information is involved, if *based
>>>>>> on this <background/foreground>, *one would expect a* different
>>>>>> <foreground/background>. *It may appear a heroic undertaking of
>>>>>> accounting to filter out the connections between background and foreground *as
>>>>>> such, *but it helps immensely, if we have a conceptual picture of
>>>>>> how two interdependent logical systems interact, irrespectively of how one
>>>>>> names them. In Joe’s case, these are named Logic and Reality. Wittgenstein
>>>>>> called them that, what we can and that we cannot speak about exactly. Our
>>>>>> neurology suggests we see them as a contrast-generating dichotomy.
>>>>>> Experiments with logical primitives show that the problem can be studied in
>>>>>> great detail.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Summarising:* Information in Operation: Probability delineates
>>>>>> concepts that are well supported by technical observations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am Mi., 12. Mai 2021 um 11:15 Uhr schrieb Joseph Brenner <
>>>>>> joe.brenner en bluewin.ch>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Marcin and Pedro,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for the reminder. For possible comments, I attach my
>>>>>>> one-page Abstract; the full paper, on information and probability, will be
>>>>>>> submitted to Mark Burgin’s Conference on Theoretical and Foundational
>>>>>>> Problems.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I welcome Pedro’s concept of re-opening the discussion of Natural
>>>>>>> Intelligence. This subject has come up in the recent work of our
>>>>>>> colleagues, Zhong Yixin, Shi Zhongzhi and Zhao Chuan on Intelligence
>>>>>>> Science. This topic is also mentioned as one for discussion in the
>>>>>>> Conference on the Philosophy of Information. My hope is that that it might
>>>>>>> attract, finally, some new work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I look forward to a dialogue on these issues,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *From:* Fis [mailto:fis-bounces en listas.unizar.es] *On Behalf Of *Marcin
>>>>>>> SCHROEDER
>>>>>>> *Sent:* mercredi, 12 mai 2021 08:22
>>>>>>> *To:* Pedro C. Marijuan
>>>>>>> *Cc:* fis
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Wake up call
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Pedro and FIS Friends,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you Pedro for the reminder about the IS4SI Summit. If
>>>>>>> someone did not consider yet their participation in the Summit, please
>>>>>>> visit the website https://summit-2021.is4si.org/. *The deadline for
>>>>>>> submission of extended abstracts is June 15, 2021.* Participation
>>>>>>> in the Summit is free from any conference fee. There will be multiple
>>>>>>> choices for the publication of papers presented at the Summit's eleven
>>>>>>> conferences. There is an option to present different papers at more than
>>>>>>> one conference.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Once again, thank you Pedro for the "wake-up call".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marcin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marcin J. Schroeder, Ph.D.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Specially Appointed Professor
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Global Learning Center
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IEHE (Institute for Excellence in Higher Education)    (
>>>>>>> 高度教養教育・学生支援機構)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tohoku University                                                  (
>>>>>>> 東北大学)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.bing.com/search?q=philosophies+mdpi&form=EDGSPH&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&msnews=1&plvar=0&refig=b9ed598367f44bce8af0a68f11994568&PC=HCTS&sp=-1&pq=philosophies+mdpi&sc=0-17&qs=n&sk=&cvid=b9ed598367f44bce8af0a68f11994568>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 41 Kawauchi, Aoba-ku, Sendai 980-8576 JAPAN        (〒980-8576
>>>>>>> 仙台市青葉区川内41)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> schroeder.marcin.e4 en tohoku.ac.jp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Professor Emeritus
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Akita International University, Akita Japan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> mjs en gl.aiu.ac.jp <mjs en aiu.ac.jp>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Editor-in-Chief
>>>>>>>            President
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Philosophies * (MDPI Basel Switzerland)
>>>>>>>  International Society for the Study of Information  (IS4SI)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.mdpi.com/journal/philosophies
>>>>>>> is4si.org/about-is4si/organisation/board/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, May 12, 2021 at 4:41 AM Pedro C. Marijuan <
>>>>>>> pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear FISers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You will remember in those ancient times of travels and hotels (so
>>>>>>> distant now!) the request in the front desk for a wake up call... we should
>>>>>>> be on time for the presentations or for the shuttle to the airport.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In these strange times of ours, of unrelenting isolation, every
>>>>>>> month our stamina reserves are little by little depleted, at least for
>>>>>>> those not directly involved in the duties of academic life or institutional
>>>>>>> research. How a wake up call might be arranged for those of us at the brisk
>>>>>>> of depression?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In June 15th is the deadline for participating in the IS4SI 2021
>>>>>>> conference. See https://summit-2021.is4si.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *I think we should massively participate.* Let us post our
>>>>>>> tentative abstracts in the list, as Howard did, and let us have preliminary
>>>>>>> discussions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Personally, I will send an abstract to one of the sessions (still
>>>>>>> undecided which one could be fitting) about
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> THE PARADIGM OF NATURAL INTELLIGENCE
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It will be argued that intelligence is a universal phenomenon
>>>>>>> present in all forms of life. It requires a new form of relationship with
>>>>>>> the environment, implying not only openness to energy flows but to
>>>>>>> information flows as well. External information processing, coupled with
>>>>>>> internal information processing, may produce an adaptive life cycle that
>>>>>>> manifests (natural) intelligence, produces meaning, and realizes fitness
>>>>>>> value. Out from the basic prokaryotic conformation, the unit of natural
>>>>>>> intelligence, it may develop hierarchically, via multicellularity, and
>>>>>>> particularly with the evolution of nervous systems. Then, natural
>>>>>>> intelligence fully develops up to the point, in the human case, of
>>>>>>> exhibiting pieces of artificial intelligence that mimic some of the basic
>>>>>>> properties of the former. It will be finally argued that without a proper
>>>>>>> understanding of natural intelligence, the scientific foundations of
>>>>>>> artificial intelligence will be shaky--notwithstanding the technological
>>>>>>> grandeur it is effectively achieving. But unbridled, half-understood
>>>>>>> technologies are not a panacea for societies. Often the opposite.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best regards to all!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --Pedro
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pedro C. Marijuán
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electrónico
>>>>>>> en busca de virus.
>>>>>>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <#m_-1590722692411814382_m_-945754525688966206_m_8630024129085924586_m_-3906471719249815651_m_-2915284372507053475_m_-7571210897397435741_m_789936974452038220_m_6122824538494065314_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40B>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>> gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.
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>>>>>> el siguiente enlace:
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