[Fis] Fwd: The 10 Principles. Information as Process

Fri Sep 18 22:19:31 CEST 2020

Dear Pedro, Dear Krassimir,

For me, the problem is clearly a result of using a common noun, information,
to describe a complex process rather than a participle form –
informationing. Then, “information IS a distinction” should be replaced by
“information (2) is produced in MAKING a distinction on an adjacent
difference = information (1). Then, of course the 1st principle is
recursive, but correctly so! 

Best,

Joseph

  _____  

From: Fis [mailto:fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of Krassimir
Markov
Sent: vendredi, 18 septembre 2020 21:40
To: FIS
Subject: Re: [Fis] Fwd: The 10 Principles

Dear Pedro,

I still not agree with the first principle.
In this form it is recursive!

Information needs itself to became information, because difference could not
be distinguished without information.
In this form, the first principle sound like this:

Information is distinction of information !   

Sorry!

Friendly greetings

Krassimir

From: Pedro <mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>  C. Marijuan 

Sent: Friday, September 18, 2020 9:01 PM

To: 'fis' <mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>  

Subject: Re: [Fis] Fwd: The 10 Principles

Dear All,
Thanks to Jose Javier for his comments. Regarding the loop you mention about
distinction, you are right, but this is a very characteristic of life (see
that Maturana and Varela already said something pretty similar in their Tree
of Knowledge). In the other biological principles that follow (below)  I try
to clarify that notion in several directions, particularly concerning
signaling systems, a concept which was completely ignored until well in the
1990s. Your second comment may be partially responded looking at those
further principles dealing with the symbolic communication via language and
the social narratives, not far from what you have pointed. Thus I include
the whole principles herein.

1. Information is distinction on an adjacent difference. 

2. Information processes consist in organized action upon differences
collected onto structures, patterns, sequences, messages, or flows.

3. Information flows are essential organizers of life's self-production
process –the life cycle– anticipating, shaping, and mixing up with the
accompanying energy flows.

4. Proto-phenomena of meaning, knowledge, and cognition (& intelligence)
emerge via signaling systems of living cells, fully developed in the
action/perception cycle of central nervous systems.

5. Information/communication exchanges among adaptive life-cycles underlie
the complexity of biological organization at all scales.

6. It is symbolic language what conveys the essential communication
exchanges of individuals —and constitutes the core of human "social nature."

7. Human information can be transformed into efficient knowledge by
following the "knowledge instinct", further enhanced and delimited by
collectively applying rigorous methodologies.

8. Human cognitive limitations are partially overcome via "knowledge
ecologies", where knowledge circulates and recombines socially in a
continuous actualization that involves "creative destruction" of theories,
practices, and disciplines.

9. Narratives become encapsulated forms of “natural intelligence”, tailored
to capture collective attention and memory, and essential for the cohesion
of social, political, and economic structures.

10. Information science proposes a new, radical vision on how information
and knowledge surround individual lives, with profound consequences for
scientific-philosophical practice and for social governance.

Briefly referring to the other discussion track (Christophe), I quite agree
with situating the origins of (genuine) meaning with living beings, but have
some trouble with "constraints" when generally applied to biological
cognition. I think they may be more useful in other fields (originated in
kinematics, they become more and more volatile as used in Dynamic Systems
Theory, and similarly weakened when going from AI to biological cognition).
For instance,  given 3,000 genes in Ecoli, organized in mixed clusters of
fiendish complexity, how do you establish meaningful constraints? Or can
even attribute separate "functions"? You may see in DOI:
<https://www.researchgate.net/deref/http%3A%2F%2Fdx.doi.org%2F10.1016%2Fj.pb
iomolbio.2015.07.002?_sg%5B0%5D=nH-ziIzFNlPKAqMszwKA9aJSdUF_He_Rfcal3jUKXaF_
lvDrbTWXcTEDtf5uNRaHZMzJ0MFczgM3J-aub54-p6oiQA.Vi1baoaYqIl4vlby-pQVd58ob8uro
m6m0dhZo1yJ26_NjwihWirad9bxSivcVUymzy-vS1FcL9dD4ZQ7UDtz_w>
10.1016/j.pbiomolbio.2015.07.002   the very dimensions of this ontology
problem.
<https://www.researchgate.net/deref/http%3A%2F%2Fdx.doi.org%2F10.1016%2Fj.pb
iomolbio.2015.07.002?_sg%5B0%5D=nH-ziIzFNlPKAqMszwKA9aJSdUF_He_Rfcal3jUKXaF_
lvDrbTWXcTEDtf5uNRaHZMzJ0MFczgM3J-aub54-p6oiQA.Vi1baoaYqIl4vlby-pQVd58ob8uro
m6m0dhZo1yJ26_NjwihWirad9bxSivcVUymzy-vS1FcL9dD4ZQ7UDtz_w> 

Regarding Marcus' comment on life as imprecisely defined (and whether
viruses or Gaia are 'alive'), the fundamental issue in natural sciences is
"explaining" rather than defining. And fortunately the advancement in our
explanations of life in last decades has been fantastic. Life can now be
characterized in every basic aspect with amazing depth. One cannot give a
precise definition of life, but one can provide a list of essential
characteristics, and at the center are the informational ones. Empirically,
the point is that information appears to be so ingrained in the molecular
organization of life that scores of new bio-disciplines have been recently
launched around it: bioinformatics, bioinformation, biocomputation, all the
"omic" fields, signaling science, etc. Biosemiotics could be included too,
but Hélas, most biosemioticians continue to "read" the DNA meaning via the
genetic code, rather than exploring the "signals" abduced from the
environment and "distinctionally worked out and transcribed in genes--from
which ultimately "meaning" emerges. About viruses concretely, they have been
essential in the origins of eukaryotic complexity and in the dynamic balance
of marine and terrestrial ecosystems... irrespective on how we consider
their degree of "aliveness". And finally "non comment" about some (baiting?)
expressions in your previous reply. 

I see right now the careful "review" by Loet: better for a next occasion!

Best--Pedro

PS. The Three Messages per Week are counted following the international
business week (from Monday to Sunday included).

-- 
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group

pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
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