[Fis] whether this useful simulation is information, data or something else?

Mon Mar 30 22:33:44 CEST 2020

Hi Gordana and Krassimir,

This was the essence of my earlier question.

If simulation is a "tool", where do we separate the tool from the
information?

Language, for example, can be considered as a tool for communication. Is
the information in the words, or are the words part of the tool?

We may, like Maturana, reach the conclusion that there is no information.
There is a process involving "structural coupling" between living systems
which he calls "languaging". But no "information stuff".

But Maturana only seems to have half the story too. Because within the
"consensual domain" there must be a coordination of expectations, and that
must depend on anticipation. So time is absolutely tied up in the process.
What do we think time is? Is it real or imaginary? Can one talk of
information without time? No. Can one talk of time without information? I
doubt it.

This is what fascinates me about agent-based simulations. You say that it's
empirical. What do we mean when we say that? That its discarding of
information about the world conforms to ways in which we are comfortable to
discard information about our realities? This would be another way of
reading Hume's basic thesis on empiricism concerning regular successions of
events. Empirical regularities coordinate expectations by discarding
information, don't they?

Best wishes

Mark

On Mon, 30 Mar 2020, 20:39 Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic, <
gordana.dodig-crnkovic at mdh.se> wrote:

> Dear Krassimir,
>
> I apologize for missing your mail. It is quite chaotic these days.
>
> Not sure if I understand the question.
>
> Is it whether simulation is information, data or something else (I assume
> knowledge)?
>
> Simulation is a tool that can be used to produce data, information and
> knowledge.
>
> Simulation among can be seen as replacement for/equivalent to experiment.
>
> In the same way as you can use experiment to generate data, information or
> knowledge, you can use simulation*.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Gordana
>
>
>
> *See for example:
>
> F. Guala, “Models, simulations, and experiments,” in Model-Based
> Reasoning: Science, Technology, Values, L. Magnani and
>
> M. Morgan and M. Morrison, “Models as mediating instruments,” in Models as
> Mediating. Perspectives on Natural and Social Sciences, M. Morgan, M.
> Morrison,
>
> M. Morgan, “Experiments without material intervention,” in The philosophy
> of scientific experimentation, H.Radder,Ed. University of Pittsburgh Press,
> 2003.
>
> ——, “Experiments versus models: New phenomena, inference and surprise.”
> Journal of Economic Methodology, vol. 12: 2, pp. 317–329, 2005.
>
> M. Morrison, “Models, measurement and computer simulation: the changing
> face of experimentation,” Philosophical Studies, vol. 143,pp. 33–47, 2009.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Fis <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> on behalf of Krassimir Markov <
> markov at foibg.com>
> *Organisation: *ITHEA
> *Reply to: *Krassimir Markov <markov at foibg.com>
> *Date: *Monday, 30 March 2020 at 14:11
> *To: *"annette.grathoff at is4si.org" <annette.grathoff at is4si.org>, "
> fis at listas.unizar.es" <fis at listas.unizar.es>
> *Subject: *[Fis] whether this useful simulation is information, data or
> something else?
>
>
>
> Dear Annette and FIS Colleagues,
>
>
>
> The following question I had sent to Gordana offline due to the FIS limit
> of number of posts per week.
>
> I see it is still actual, so I resend it now.
>
>
>
> In line with the FIS discussion, I would kindly ask you to tell, in your
> view, whether this useful simulation is information, data or something else?
>
>
>
> Be healthy and in good spirit!
>
> Friendly greetings
>
> Krassimir
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* annette.grathoff at is4si.org
>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2020 12:46 PM
>
> *To:* gordana.dodig-crnkovic at mdh.se ; fis at listas.unizar.es
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Excellent simulation
>
>
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> Grant Sanderson (3blue1brown) did it again. Please do not tell me you
> never heard of him and his excellent YouTube science-knowledge
> visualization videos! He changed the interest of thousands of people for
> abstract mathematical ideas, making them concrete and more tangible by his
> excellent simulation videos. He originally came from the Khan Academy team
> as you can read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3Blue1Brown
> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F3Blue1Brown&data=02%7C01%7Cgordana.dodig-crnkovic%40mdh.se%7Cf94bfa0583a3496129aa08d7d4a37cad%7Ca1795b64dabd4758b988b309292316cf%7C0%7C0%7C637211670951864476&sdata=Nu2csMYUJlMZl0tuUoRyztGrPO6lVHf8LxfkmfVA26w%3D&reserved=0>
> .
>
> This I say as Annette Grathoff, not as the General secretary: My personal
> opinion is that every scientist interested in informing curious people and
> raising interest in scientific knowledge should know his videos. This is
> how information about important concepts is enabled to spread many times
> faster than when relying solely on the classical ways. It does science well
> to spread channels like his, after you (not only) scientifically approved
> of the content.
>
> Best wishes and stay healthy,
>
> Annette
>
> Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic wrote on 29.03.2020 12:17 (GMT +02:00):
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
>
>
> Please have a look at this excellent simulation:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxAaO2rsdIs&feature=youtu.be
> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DgxAaO2rsdIs%26feature%3Dyoutu.be&data=02%7C01%7Cgordana.dodig-crnkovic%40mdh.se%7Cf94bfa0583a3496129aa08d7d4a37cad%7Ca1795b64dabd4758b988b309292316cf%7C0%7C0%7C637211670951874473&sdata=%2Bo3%2Bc%2B5xTkzXL37ANvsJ%2FwK1uuKrI8yCNlecjQknLMc%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
> which makes me think about how powerful thinking tools
> that computation and information/data really offer.
>
>
>
> Stay safe and take care,
>
> Gordana
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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