[Fis] [External Email] defining information - On relating definitions of information

Fri Mar 6 12:37:38 CET 2020

Dear colleagues

Just a short comment on the current discussion, regarding physics of information:
Here is an interview that might be of interest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfQ2r0zvyoA

and special issue of Information<http://www.mdpi.com/journal/information> (2012) on "Information and Energy/Matter".  3(4), 751-755. doi:10.3390/info3040751
http://www.mdpi.com/journal/information/special_issues/matter

Measurement is only one part of physics, and it is essential that fundamental units are few and commonly shared
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI_base_unit
But meaning of it all comes from the interaction of a human (agent) and the physical world outside, thus bringing into picture much more than mapping of observations into suitable units.

Agency can be as simple thing as ability to act, and I believe Christophe talks about cognitive agency which is the property of living. Beings and cognitive artifacts, and it can be expressed in terms of agency of inanimate physical-chemical objects that those cognitive agents are made of.

Information can be as simple or as complex notion as you can imagine, but this comes with a cost – either we see no detail, or we don’t see a big picture. Or we don’t see the dynamics of it etc. What we might want, is not so much to vote for the best definition of information but instead to understand how those different definitions relate to each other, and what makes people call them information. The same goes for energy, life, cognition or any other fundamental idea that we discuss.

All the best,
Gordana

From: Fis <fis-bounces en listas.unizar.es> on behalf of Lars-Göran Johansson <Lars-Goran.Johansson en filosofi.uu.se>
Date: Friday, 6 March 2020 at 11:57
To: Christophe Menant <christophe.menant en hotmail.fr>
Cc: fis <fis en listas.unizar.es>
Subject: Re: [Fis] [External Email] Re: defining information

Lars-Göran Johansson
lars-goran.johansson en filosofi.uu.se<mailto:lars-goran.johansson en filosofi.uu.se>

6 mars 2020 kl. 11:37 skrev Christophe Menant <christophe.menant en hotmail.fr<mailto:christophe.menant en hotmail.fr>>:

It is indeed difficult to define information as it applies to many different things. But these different things have in common to be agents, and agency may be a “key feature” of information. Take away the agent, information does not exist, has no reason of being.
And the reason of being of information is its meaning for the agent. Information exists only by its meaning for the agent which uses it to satisfy its constraints.
The agent can then be looked at as “an identifiable entity submitted to internal constraints and capable of actions for the satisfaction of the constraints” (see para 3.2.3 inhttps://philpapers.org/rec/MENCSA-2<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphilpapers.org%2Frec%2FMENCSA-2&data=02%7C01%7Cgordana.dodig-crnkovic%40mdh.se%7C699a6ca2af11425cc40f08d7c1bd33e2%7Ca1795b64dabd4758b988b309292316cf%7C0%7C0%7C637190890696259897&sdata=XV6weB%2BOKHnbdI%2BwgrDIyxheIWL4ubMU2qnof4loRig%3D&reserved=0>).
This would bring to a definition of information like “energy variation which leads an agent to generate meanings to satisfy its constraints” (looks like a rewording of “a difference that makes a difference"….)
Best
Christophe

Using the term ’agent’ in the definition of information just highlights Wittgenstein’s point. What is the common characteristics for all things called ’agents’? And ’generate meanings’? What is that?
Lars-Göran

________________________________
De : Fis <fis-bounces en listas.unizar.es<mailto:fis-bounces en listas.unizar.es>> de la part de Loet Leydesdorff <loet en leydesdorff.net<mailto:loet en leydesdorff.net>>
Envoyé : vendredi 6 mars 2020 07:47
À : João Alvaro Carvalho <jac en dsi.uminho.pt<mailto:jac en dsi.uminho.pt>>; fis <fis en listas.unizar.es<mailto:fis en listas.unizar.es>>
Objet : Re: [Fis] [External Email] Re: defining information

I gave up looking for an unifying definition of information.
As soon I switch to another context (for example, moving from the context of organisational work to  the human mind or to the cell) the key features are different.

This problem is precisely a reason to stick to a content-free, i.e., mathematical definition of information.  Information can then further be made relevant in any special theory. The application is not dimension-free.

Best,
Loet

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