[Fis] Concluding? And something else...

jose luis perez velazquez jlpvjlpv at gmail.com
Tue Feb 5 16:16:06 CET 2019

     Hello and thanks again to all for your comments and interest.
  One final remark. Alexander mentioned in one of the emails that to know
whehter something was conscious we could quantify using our method (entropy
of configurations of neural connections), or theirs... or perhaps even
Tononi's phi.  I don't think any of these can be used to assert something
is conscious.  Let me very briefly explain it using the criticism I heard
many times about Tononi's phi (just substitute phi for our entropy or any
quantitfier from operational architectonics ). The criticism goes that phi
can have high values when applied to inanimate items like  bricks or some
other nonliving object, hence it is useless to assert cognition. The
fallacy of this criticism is that phi was not meant to be applied to rocks.
In our case, if we quantify our entropy in the organoid brains and find,
say, values similar to those in subjects during conscious awareness, it
means only that the organoids have lots of configurations of the neural
connections, but the organoid is not a human brain/body. High entropy in
connectivity patterns in humans means the man or woman is probably
processing sensorimotor information awake and in good healthy fashion, but
will say nothing if applied to an organoid, cell culture, or to a liver or
a kidney, which by the way they may have lots of configurations in the
connections among their constituent cells but those are not neurons,
neither a kidney is a brain. What I am trying to say is that Tononi's phi
may say something about human cognition, and as well our entropy and other
methods like the operational architechtonics, when applied to humans, will
be probably very useful, but these methods  were not meant to be applied to
leaves or rocks or cell cultures. We should thus be careful when trying to
extrapolate any technique/measurement/quantifier from one system to other
systems that are totally different.
    And with this, I say adios y gracias

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 2:30 PM Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>

> Dear All,
> With the beginning of February, it is time to put an end to the New Year
> Lecture. Let us thank Jose Luis (and Ramon) for the texts and insights.
> Maybe some concluding comment from Jose Luis would in order, at his
> convenience, provided he is not too busy with other matters.
> I cannot help but including a link to something that left me astonished. I
> rarely watch TV, but in this case ("Goya Prizes", a Spanish Film Gala)
> something strange occurred. Inadvertently, while the TV was casually on,  I
> heard something that instantly caught my attention... Please, have a glance
> (better at night):
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32d1bq-kG5c
> Her name: Rosalia
> All the best--Pedro
> --
> -------------------------------------------------
> Pedro C. Marijuán
> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
> pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.eshttp://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
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