[Fis] A Curious Story
Gyorgy Darvas
darvasg at iif.hu
Wed Jan 11 14:09:01 CET 2017
Dear All,
I follow O. Rössler's concerns for a few years.
As a physicist (who is probably not the best specialist in the black
hole physics), I do not want to involve in detailed physical
explanations and mathematical proofs for information specialists, not
certainly specialised in physics.
According to me, there is a misunderstanding that makes the story curious.
Stellar black holes are a result of a gravitational collapse. That
collapse takes place, when the mass of the star exceeds a critical
value; it is a result of the locally high gravitational field. that
gravitational field is stronger than the electromagnetic field that (in
a very simplified picture) keeps the electrons revolve in a distance
around the nucleus.
In the course of that gravitational collapse the electron shells of the
atoms fall in the nucleus. The properties of the black holes are defined
for them. The star becomes very small in size, but has a strong
gravitational field, and behaves like described in the bh literature.
Cause: high gravity; effect: collapse, emergence of a bh.
One can produce single atom collapse in extreme laboratory
circumstances. Why not? However, that single (or few) atom collapse will
not produce a gravitational field exceeding the critical value; since
its mass is much less than the critical. The reason is that it was
"created" not by a self-generated gravitational collapse. Therefore, it
will not "eat" matter in its environment. According to the lack of
distance between the nucleus and electron shell(s) around it, these
"atoms" (sic!) are called mini-black-holes. However, they do not behave
like the stellar black holes over the critical mass. *The name is only
an analogy*, marked by the prefix "mini-".
Cause: not high gravity; effect: no critical mass, no more attraction of
other masses around it than before its collapse.
Regards,
Gyuri
On 2017.01.11. 11:33, Otto E. Rossler wrote:
> I like this response from Lou,
> Otto
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Louis H Kauffman <loukau at gmail.com>
> *To:* Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
> *Cc:* fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 10, 2017 6:09 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] A Curious Story
>
> Dear Folks,
> It is very important to not be hasty and assume that the warning
> Professor Rossler made is to be taken seriously.
> It is relatively easy to check if a mathematical reasoning is true or
> false.
> It is much more difficult to see if a piece of mathematics is
> correctly alligned to physical prediction.
> Note also that a reaction such as
> "THIS STORY IS A GOOD REASON FOR SHUTTING DOWN CERN PERMANENTLY AND
> SAVING A LOT OF LARGELY WASTED MONEY.”.
> Is not in the form of scientific rational discussion, but rather in
> the form of taking a given conclusion for granted
> and using it to support another opinion that is just that - an opinion.
>
> By concatenating such behaviors we arrive at the present political
> state of the world.
>
> This is why, in my letter, I have asked for an honest discussion of
> the possible validity of Professor Rossler’s arguments.
>
> At this point I run out of commentary room for this week and I shall
> read and look forward to making further comments next week.
> Best,
> Lou Kauffman
>
>
>> On Jan 9, 2017, at 7:17 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan
>> <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es <mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>> wrote:
>>
> From Alex Hankey
> -------- Mensaje reenviado --------
> Asunto: Re: [Fis] A Curious Story
> Fecha: Sun, 8 Jan 2017 19:55:55 +0530
> De: Alex Hankey <alexhankey at gmail.com> <mailto:alexhankey at gmail.com>
> Para: PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
> <mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
>
>
>
> THIS STORY IS A GOOD REASON FOR SHUTTING DOWN CERN PERMANENTLY AND
> SAVING A LOT OF LARGELY WASTED MONEY.
>
> On 5 January 2017 at 16:36, PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ
> <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es <mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>> wrote:
>
> Dear FISers,
>
> Herewith the Lecture inaugurating our 2017 sessions.
> I really hope that this Curious Story is just that, a curiosity.
> But in science we should not look for hopes but for arguments and
> counter-arguments...
>
> Best wishes to All and exciting times for the New Year!
> --Pedro
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *De:* Otto E. Rossler [oeross00 at yahoo.com <mailto:oeross00 at yahoo.com>]
> *Enviado el:* miércoles, 04 de enero de 2017 17:51
> *Para:* PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ
> *Asunto:* NY session
> ----------------------
>
> *A Curious Story*
> Otto E. Rossler, University of Tübingen, Germany
>
> Maybe I am the only one who finds it curious. Which fact would
> then make it even more curious for me. It goes like this: Someone
> says “I can save your house from a time bomb planted into the
> basement” and you respond by saying “I don’t care.” This curious
> story is taken from the Buddhist bible.
> It of course depends on who is offering to help. It could be a
> lunatic person claiming that he alone can save the planet from a
> time-bomb about to be planted into it. In that case, there would
> be no reason to worry. On the other hand, it could also be that
> you, the manager, are a bit high at the moment so that you don't
> fully appreciate the offer made to you. How serious is my offer
> herewith made to you today?
> I only say that for eight years' time already, there exists no
> counter-proof in the literature to my at first highly publicized
> proof of danger. I was able to demonstrate that the miniature
> black holes officially attempted to be produced at CERN do possess
> two radically new properties:
>
> * they cannot Hawking evaporate
> * they grow exponentially inside matter
>
> If these two findings hold water, the current attempt at producing
> ultra-slow miniature black holes on earth near the town of Geneva
> means that the slower-most specimen will get stuck inside earth
> and grow there exponentially to turn the planet into a 2-cm black
> hole after several of undetectable growth. Therefore the current
> attempt of CERN's to produce them near Geneva is a bit curious.
> What is so curious about CERN's attempt? It is the fact that no
> one finds it curious. I am reminded of an old joke: The professor
> informs the candidate about the outcome of the oral exam with the
> following words “You are bound to laugh but you have flunked the
> test.” I never understood the punchline. I likewise cannot
> understand why a never refuted proof of the biggest danger of
> history leaves everyone unconcerned. Why NOT check an unattended
> piece of luggage on the airport called Earth?
> To my mind, this is the most curious story ever -- for the very
> reason that everyone finds it boring. A successful counter-proof
> would thus alleviate but a single person’s fears – mine. You, my
> dear reader, are thus my last hope that you might be able to
> explain the punch line to me: “Why is it that it does not matter
> downstairs that the first floor is ablaze?” I am genuinely curious
> to learn why attempting planetocide is fun. Are you not?
>
> For J.O.R.
> ---------------
>
>
>
>
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> --
> Alex Hankey M.A. (Cantab.) PhD(M.I.T.)
> Distinguished Professor of Yoga and Physical Science,
> SVYASA, Eknath Bhavan, 19 Gavipuram Circle
> Bangalore 560019, Karnataka, India
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