[Fis] Is quantum information the basis of spacetime?

Sat Nov 5 17:29:42 CET 2016

Dear Moises and all,

Floridi has an excellent chapter in his "philosophy of information" called
"Against digital ontology". It's worth quoting the two fundamental
questions he asks about digital ontology:

"a. whether the physical universe might be adequately modelled digitally
and computationally, independently of whether it is actually digital and
computational in itself;

b. whether the ultimate nature of the physical universe might be actually
digital and computation in itself, independently of how it can be
effectively or adequately modelled." (Floridi, "Philosophy of Information",
p320)

My point is that this stuff is highly speculative. Of course, it might be
argued that "it from qbit" is fundamentally different from "it from bit".
But is it really? Quantum computers look rather like parallel processors,
don't they? Also the emphasis on relations rather than atoms (qbits) in the
article is interesting, but it looks like there is still an atomistic logic
behind it. It's the stuff of computer science - even if it's quantum
computer science.

I might struggle to see the point - even if I'm happy that physicists are
talking about information. If anybody was to communicate this in a way that
helps me see why this matters, they would probably have to amplify their
descriptions - in effect, add redundancy in their descriptions. In this
particular case, I think that would be very difficult.

Curiously, in the recent discussion on this list about the additional layer
of information in DNA (
http://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-confirm-a-second-layer-of-information-hiding-in-dna),
I think it would be easier to amplify the descriptions.

Best wishes,

Mark

On 5 November 2016 at 11:28, Moisés André Nisenbaum <
moises.nisenbaum at ifrj.edu.br> wrote:

> Dear FISers.
>
> I was very excited with the John’s first message informing that a group of
> scientists is discussing again the role of Information in Physics.
>
>
> The high impact on FIS list of John’s post (13 replies from different
> persons in 2 days) shows that it is yet an open discussion. Thank you all
> for the very interesting posts :-)
>
> The works (not interdisciplinary nor reductionist) of Tom Stonier (1991),
> Holger Lyre (1995) and Carl Friedrich Von Weizsäcker, et. Al (2006) and
> many discussions on this list (http://fis.sciforum.net/fis-
> discussion-sessions/) are also about this theme.
>
>
> Scientific American article is an introduction. So I went to the source of
> the project named “It from Qubit: Simons Collaboration on Quantum Fields,
> Gravity, and Information.
>
> Home page: https://www.simonsfoundation.org/mathematics-and-physical-
> science/it-from-qubit-simons-collaboration-on-quantum-fields-gravity-and-
> information/
>
> Overview: http://web.stanford.edu/~phayden/simons/overview.pdf
>
> Project: http://web.stanford.edu/~phayden/simons/simons-proposal.pdf
>
>
>
> Mainly, it is an Interdisciplinary Resarch group trying to approximate
> Fundamental Physics from Quantum Information, so I think that it is a good
> and necessary initiative. Imagine what we can “extract” from this two
> fields working together!
>
>
>
> They have several projects, but I think that the final goals is not as
> important as the revelations of the processes. We should look at the
> projects. Maybe we can find that, after all, the title “it from qbit” was
> only a “marketing” (bad?) choice :-)
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
> Moisés
>
>
> References:
>
> STONIER, T. *Towards a new theory of information*. Journal of Information
> Science. *Anais*...1991Disponível em: http://www.scopus.com/inward/
> record.url?eid=2-s2.0-0026386595&partnerID=tZOtx3y1
>
> “Information science is badly in need of an information theory. The paper
> discusses both the need, and the possibility of developing such a theory
> based on the assumption that information is a basic property of the
> universe.”
>
>
> LYRE, H. Quantum theory of Ur-objects as a theory of information. *International
> Journal of Theoretical Physics*, v. 34, n. 8, p. 1541–1552, ago. 1995.
>
> “The quantum theory of ur-objects proposed by C. F. von Weizsäcker has to
> be interpreted as a quantum theory of information.”
>
>
> WEIZSÄCKER, C. F. VON; GÖRNITZ, T.; LYRE, H. *The structure of physics*. Dordrecht:
> Springer, 2006.
>
> “the idea of a quantum theory of binary alternatives (the so-called
> ur-theory), a unified quantum theoretical framework in which spinorial
> symmetry groups are considered to give rise to the structure of space and
> time.”
>
> 2016-11-03 16:52 GMT-02:00 John Collier <Collierj at ukzn.ac.za>:
>
>> Apparently some physicists think so.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/tangled-up-in-spa
>> cetime/?WT.mc_id=SA_WR_20161102
>>
>>
>>
>> John Collier
>>
>> Emeritus Professor and Senior Research Associate
>>
>> Philosophy, University of KwaZulu-Natal
>>
>> http://web.ncf.ca/collier
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Moisés André Nisenbaum
> Doutorando IBICT/UFRJ. Professor. Msc.
> Instituto Federal do Rio de Janeiro - IFRJ
> Campus Rio de Janeiro
> moises.nisenbaum at ifrj.edu.br
>
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>
>

-- 
Dr. Mark William Johnson
Institute of Learning and Teaching
Faculty of Health and Life Sciences
University of Liverpool

Visiting Professor
Far Eastern Federal University, Russia

Phone: 07786 064505
Email: johnsonmwj1 at gmail.com
Blog: http://dailyimprovisation.blogspot.com
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