[Fis] An Agenda of Control

[Michel Godron]

my replies are in red

Bien reçu votre message. MERCI. Cordialement. M. Godron
Le 27/07/2016 à 13:23, Pedro C. Marijuan a écrit :
> Dear Joseph,
>
> I finally went through that video, in part stimulated by your critical 
> comments. My impression, particularly at the beginning of the talk, 
> was positive: that the fundamental physical reality might partake of a 
> similar organization to life is quite congruent with the 
> "informational" point of view.
I quite agree, and the first  chapter of /Ec//ologie et Evolution du 
monde vivant /explains why "Life is a transmission of information" 
including thermodynamical entropy.
> I was strongly reminded of Michael Conrad's: "When we look at a 
> biological system we are looking at the face of the underlying physics 
> of the universe." This was in Madrid 1994, at the foundational 
> conference of FIS. Well, perhaps some aspects of the last part of that 
> talk were not so well focused in my view, but at least always appeared 
> open to argumentation if I properly interpret the style and the 
> context. Does a not so well-solved part destroy a whole direction of 
> thought? I think we must be open to the give and take, and contribute 
> to salvage the best parts of interesting speculations (if that's the 
> case here), even for our own intellectual interest. Couldn't our own 
> common fis enterprise be toughly criticized in similar grounds? Just 
> to conclude, I am reminded of one of the most famous short essays by 
> philosopher Ortega y Gasset, it was about the "frame", just the frame 
> of any painting ("Meditación del Marco" was the title in Spanish). 
> Sholarship is able to create exciting reflections/discussions... on 
> anything.
> So, addressed to all FIS colleagues, why we don't accept this new 
> discussion challenge?
I should be glad to participate !
Could you tell me if another french scientist partipates to FIS ?
M. Godron
>
> Friendly regards
> --Pedro
>
> El 13/07/2016 a las 19:15, Joseph Brenner escribió:
>>
>> Dear Pedro,
>>
>> Most of us would agree that standard Western science does not give a 
>> complete answer to questions about life and mind. As we try to seek 
>> better foundations in general and for information science in 
>> particular, we may be able to benefit from knowledge resources which 
>> have not been fully exploited, those of the 'Past' and those of the 
>> ‘East’. I myself have written a paper suggesting that a metalogical 
>> rejunction is possible in which logic recovers its original status as 
>> inclusive of all other disciplines. As Brian Josephson writes in the 
>> Abstract of one of his lectures, “Eastern mystics may have relevance 
>> to scientific understanding.” Fritjof Capra explored such parallels 
>> in his important 1967 book /The Tao of Physics./However, many 
>> interpretations of what mysticism is are possible.
>>
>> There is a further major /caveat /to keep in mind: there are 
>> different ways of understanding “what is missing” in science (see 
>> Terence Deacon’s discussion of information) and what kind of 
>> additions could be made. On the one hand, we may legitimately 
>> associate quantum fluctuations with Indian (not Eastern) ideas of 
>> things continuously moving in and out of existence. On the other, as 
>> we have discussed in connection with Conrad’s ‘fluctuons’ at least 
>> once in the FIS Group, it may NOT be correct to say that such 
>> fluctuations are or can carry meaningful information.
>>
>> Recent postings to the FIS list have been made by people associated 
>> with a project embedded in a major university (Cambridge, UK), the 
>> “Matter-Mind Unification Project”, now the “Theory of Condensed 
>> Matter Group” which Josephson has directed. This effort has sought 
>> and still seeks to incorporate doubtful, self-confirming forms of 
>> Western thought and activity. Personally, I do not wish to be 
>> associated with the Circular Theory of Ilexa Yardley, in which “the 
>> core dynamic is the conservation of a circle”, which is a 
>> misunderstanding of dynamics. I do not wish to accept nature as 
>> controlled by some “Master Algorithm”, any more than I do Peircean 
>> Thirdness. I do not wish to be associated with paranormal phenomena, 
>> cold fusion and observer created reality, all of which are part of 
>> Josephson’s project.
>>
>> A characteristic of this thought is its dogmatism of completeness, a 
>> theory of everything, in which things are linked by a “subtler 
>> dimension which we have identified with the Platonic realm” 
>> (Yardley). One might argue that the Tao is also a theory of 
>> everything that also sees things linked in a way different from that 
>> of, say, chemical bonds. The major difference is that understanding 
>> the Tao does not require abrogating science in order to replace it by 
>> a self-serving ideology. Deacon has characterized the ‘homunculi’ and 
>> ‘golems’, disguised as physical principles, that interfere with 
>> thought; ‘wishful thinking’ is the most charitable term that can be 
>> applied.
>>
>> Other FIS members may find these ideas harmless, perhaps even 
>> amusing. I consider them perversions of thought by people with an 
>> agenda of control. The one positive result of these postings has been 
>> to cause me to re-examine the assumptions in the logic of the 
>> included middle of Stéphane Lupasco. This as some of you know is the 
>> basis of my ‘Logic in Reality’ and its Principle of Dynamic 
>> Opposition (critical formulation by Lupasco /ca. /1951). I conclude 
>> that no new and doubtful physical concepts need to be introduced to 
>> address the essential aspects of life, mind and information. That 
>> information has ‘dual aspects’ has been more or less explicit in 
>> everything I have tried to write in the last eight years. But these 
>> concepts are not simple; one cannot use the principles of quantum 
>> mechanics directly. Hence I do not expect to find a large audience 
>> nor, to be frank, a large market. I simply hope they may deserve some 
>> more discussion on the FIS list.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>
>
> -- 
> -------------------------------------------------
> Pedro C. Marijuán
> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
> Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
> Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
> Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
> 50009 Zaragoza, Spain
> Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
> pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
> http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Fis mailing list
> Fis at listas.unizar.es
> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listas.unizar.es/pipermail/fis/attachments/20160728/2573839e/attachment.html>