[Fis] Cho 2016 The social life of quarks
Pedro C. Marijuan
pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
Mon Jan 18 12:50:40 CET 2016
Dear Howard and colleagues,
OK, you can say that quarks communicate, but immediately we need to
create another term for "real" communication. I mean, there are quarks
(fermions) and bosons (particle forces) everywhere: planets, stars,
galaxies, etc. Their multiple interactions constitute most of the
contents of physics. If you want to term "communication" to some basic
categories of physical interactions based on force exchange --of some of
the 4 fundamental forces, whatever-- we run into difficulties to
characterize the communication that entails signals, agents and
meanings, and responses. That's the "real" communication we find after
the origins of that singular organization we call life --essential then
for the later emergence of superorganisms, peaking order, memes, etc.
You have oceans of interacting fermions and bosons around, but the new
communicating phenomenology is only found in our minuscule planet.
As an explanatory metaphor, it is not a good idea, almost wrong I dare
say. But as a free-wheeling, literary metaphor it belongs to the
author's choice. The problem is that both realms of information, so to
speak, have relatively overlapping components, depending on the
explanatory framework used (see the ongoing exchanges by Stan, John,
Terry, etc.) And that kind of apparent homogenization blurs the effort
to establish the distinctions and advance in a unifying perspective (I
think!!). In any case, it deserves more discussion. In your Jan. 14th
message you ad more elements--I will think twice!.
All the best--Pedro
PS. Clarifying the two messages per week rule (responding to offline
quests): the two messages should be counted along the "international
business week": starting on Monday until the end of Sunday, Greenwich
Time. Thanks to all for respecting this "boundary condition"!
HowlBloom at aol.com wrote:
> re: quarks
>
> the big question for FIS is this: do quarks communicate? and can
> their communications be called informational?
>
> are quarks more than just the first bits of matter in the cosmos? are
> they also the first socializers? the first team-makers?
>
> with oomph--howard
> ____________
> Howard Bloom
> Author of: /The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the
> Forces of History/ ("mesmerizing"-/The Washington Post/),
> /Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the
> 21st Century/ ("reassuring and sobering"-/The New Yorker)/,
> /The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of Capitalism/ ("A
> tremendously enjoyable book." James Fallows, National Correspondent,
> /The Atlantic/),
> /The God Problem: How A Godless Cosmos Creates/ ("Bloom's argument
> will rock your world." Barbara Ehrenreich),
> /How I Accidentally Started the Sixties/ ("Wow! Whew! Wild!
> Wonderful!" Timothy Leary), and
> /The Mohammed Code/ ("A terrifying book…the best book I've read on
> Islam." David Swindle,/ PJ Media/).
> www.howardbloom.net
> Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute; Former Visiting
> Scholar-Graduate Psychology Department, New York University.
> Founder: International Paleopsychology Project; Founder, Space
> Development Steering Committee; Founder: The Group Selection Squad;
> Founding Board Member: Epic of Evolution Society; Founding Board
> Member, The Darwin Project; Founder: The Big Bang Tango Media Lab;
> member: New York Academy of Sciences, American Association for the
> Advancement of Science, American Psychological Society, Academy of
> Political Science, Human Behavior and Evolution Society, International
> Society for Human Ethology, Scientific Advisory Board Member, Lifeboat
> Foundation; Editorial Board Member, Journal of Space Philosophy; Board
> member and member of Board of Governors, National Space Society.
>
> In a message dated 1/16/2016 11:48:34 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> logan at physics.utoronto.ca writes:
>
> Stan et al - you honour me by asking the question. We know that
> matter (and here I do not include dark matter or dark energy) is
> made up of a small number of quarks and gluons. As we go higher
> and higher energy we will continue to create these "freaks of
> nature" freaks in the sense that we create the conditions for them
> to come into existence using our high energy colliders. I am sure
> they sometimes occur naturally in stars from time to time but they
> do not have any long term effects - they are a passing fancy, a
> novelty, and an amusing one at that. Perhaps they will help us
> understand the quark gluon interaction. The analogy I see with the
> transition from prokaryotes to eukaryotes that I sent to Malcolm
> was my indulging in scientific based poetry. BTW I teach an
> undergrad course since 1971 called the Poetry of Physics (also the
> title of a book available on Amazon) to teach physics to
> humanities students without using math to promote science literacy
> among humanists.
>
> Another analogy that came to mind was that of proliferation of
> nucleic acids made up of the same 4 elements: C, G, A, and T.
> They are the quarks of biology and their chemical bonds the gluons.
>
> Metaphorically your - Bob Logan
> ______________________
>
> Robert K. Logan
> Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto
> Fellow University of St. Michael's College
> Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD
> http://utoronto.academia.edu/RobertKLogan
> www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan
> <http://www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan>
> www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications
> <http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications>
>
> On 2016-01-16, at 10:33 AM, Stanley N Salthe wrote:
>
>> One way to complicate anything is to smash it into bits. I
>> wonder, Bob, if you would comment on this point as a former
>> particle physicist!
>>
>> STAN
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 11:13 PM, Malcolm Dean
>> <malcolmdean at gmail.com <mailto:malcolmdean at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Yes. I don't know enough about Biology, but I noticed the 3+2
>> business some time ago. I'm automatically suspicious of
>> theories which are "vexingly complex" (QCD) and only
>> "beautiful" (String Theory) to a few people with certain math
>> backgrounds. But the Two and the Three have been important to
>> humans for thousands of years. I think Nature is actually
>> very simple, but we get overwhelmed and confused by its
>> enormous scales and by our attempts to manage observation by
>> (necessarily) creating over-simplified Objects.
>>
>> M.
>>
>> *Malcolm Dean*
>> /Member/, Higher Cognitive Affinity Group, BRI
>> <http://www.bri.ucla.edu/research/affinity-groups/higher-cognitive-function-in-neural-integration-affinity-group>
>> /Research Affiliate/, Human Complex Systems, UCLA
>> <http://intersci.ss.uci.edu/wiki/index.php/Malcolm_Dean>
>> /Member/, BAFTA/LA <http://baftala.org/>
>> /On Google Scholar
>> <http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ZopY3eQAAAAJ&hl=en>/
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 6:47 PM, Bob Logan
>> <logan at physics.utoronto.ca
>> <mailto:logan at physics.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>>
>> eukaryote came about by two prokaryotes joining together
>> and 5 quark combo can be thought of as a nucleon (3
>> quarks) and a meson(2quarks) combining and the 4 quqrk
>> state as 2 mesons combining. By this logic perhaps there
>> will be 6 quark beast if 2 nucleons combine.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2016-01-15, at 4:17 PM, Malcolm Dean wrote:
>>
>>> Could you specify the relata?
>>>
>>> Malcolm
>>>
>>> On Jan 15, 2016 5:31 AM, "Bob Logan"
>>> <logan at physics.utoronto.ca
>>> <mailto:logan at physics.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Malcolm - thanks for this article that supports
>>> my notion that my former field of particle physics
>>> is becoming like biology. The 4 and 5 quark combos
>>> represent an analogy of the transition in biology
>>> from prokaryotes to eukaryotes. :-) - Bob
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2016-01-14, at 7:39 PM, Malcolm Dean wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://science.sciencemag.org/content/351/6270/217.summary
>>>> Science 351(6270):217-219, 15 January 2016; DOI:
>>>> 10.1126/science.351.6270.217
>>>> *The social life of quarks*
>>>> Adrian Cho
>>>>
>>>> Particle physicists at Europe's CERN laboratory in
>>>> Switzerland say they have observed bizarre new
>>>> cousins of the protons and neutrons that make up
>>>> the atomic nucleus. Protons and neutrons consist of
>>>> other particles called quarks, bound by the strong
>>>> nuclear force. By smashing particles at high
>>>> energies, physicists have blasted into fleeting
>>>> existence hundreds of other quark-containing
>>>> particles. Until recently, all contained either two
>>>> or three quarks. But since 2014, researchers
>>>> working with CERN's Large Hadron Collider have also
>>>> spotted four- and five-quark particles. Such
>>>> tetraquarks and pentaquarks could require
>>>> physicists to rethink their understanding of
>>>> quantum chromodynamics, or they could have less
>>>> revolutionary implications. Researchers hope that
>>>> computer simulations and more collider studies will
>>>> reveal how the oddball newcomers are put together,
>>>> but some wonder whether experiments will ever
>>>> provide a definitive answer.
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> =
>
> _______________________________________________
> Fis mailing list
> Fis at listas.unizar.es
> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
>
--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
-------------------------------------------------
More information about the Fis
mailing list