[Fis] Five Momenta. A First Preferred Itinerary

Joseph Brenner joe.brenner at bluewin.ch
Fri Oct 23 21:31:13 CEST 2015

 Dear Pedro and Colleagues,

 Pedro's note has brought out more clearly to me the concept of an
 'Itinerary' as a path between Momenta. I for one would be willing to accept
 the discipline that comments should address relations and movement between
 Momenta in an AGREED UPON SEQUENCE. The one in Pedro's note is certainly a
 valid option, and perhaps we should try to list just one or two others to
 choose from. I think the term Pedro uses of 'itinerary elements' is
consistent with this.

 This approach, if implemented, would have the advantage that I have often
 urged: each of us would have to study something he or she has not
 studied previously, or not in this context. There would be some unity in
 this resulting diversity, at least in the order of the discussion.

 The overlaps and interactions between Momenta other than the next one in
 line should not be neglected, but they can remain in the background.
 Comments welcome.

Best wishes,


> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Pedro C. Marijuan" <pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es>
> To: <fis en listas.unizar.es>
> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 2:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [Fis] Five Momenta. Five Itineraries
>> Dear FIS colleagues,
>> Thanks to all for the valuable insights. Responding briefly:
>> To Joseph: perhaps your points, although interesting, are not truly an 
>> itinerary. For instance, WuKun and Lupasco belong to the First Momentum 
>> (philos.). I agree that they can be adequate first steps (but there might 
>> be some others, such as Merleau Ponty, Ortega y Gasset, etc.). Once some 
>> temporary philo basis is attained, one has to visit --I think--the 
>> neurodynamic counterpart of those tenets (Momentum 3, neuro). From there, 
>> a complex evo-devo panorama opens (visiting Momentum 2). Then it would be 
>> high time to return to M1, to consolidate the basis within an adequate 
>> heuristic "neuro-biologic-ethologic.cognitive-philosophic" approach to 
>> human prosocial capabilities, language included. Time for visiting M5 
>> (infoeconomics of social complexity, development of human history). From 
>> there, to M6 (contemporary info revolution, problems of our time). Back 
>> to M1, proposing an overall new way of thinking, plus quite many further 
>> movements of refinement and deeper analysis...
>> To Stan: if hierarchy helps to move into the previous multidisciplinary 
>> entanglement fine, otherwise it is a useless item to be kept into the 
>> lean mental "backpack" needed for this itinerary...
>> To Loet and Marcus: let us agree that disciplines are based on 
>> "communities of inquiry" that follow strict laws of "intellectual 
>> economy". Our limited capabilities force us to establish disciplinary 
>> specialization, and that's good, but a healthy knowledge system would 
>> also establish quite many "vertical" multidisciplines integrating the 
>> "horizontal" disciplines that apply simultaneously into concrete subjects 
>> (as happens in eg, medicine, engineering, anthrolpology, etc.).
>> To Steven and Soeren, Francesco, and all: Should'nt we distinguish the 
>> above itinerary elements (actually smallish parts from a number of 
>> disciples and subdisciplines) from the "instrumental" fields of knowledge 
>> that can be used "on tap" but quite often are used "on top"? I mean, 
>> classical and new Info theories, von Neumann theories (automata, 
>> machines, games), Turing and computational approaches, symmetry studies, 
>> entropy studies, quantum information, physical information, mathematical 
>> optimization procedures, etc. should not occupy the leading seat in this 
>> trip. To insist, they are instrumental just to help, strictly kept under 
>> command, along the different elaboration stages of the itinerary.
>> In the extent to which a similar scheme would be valid intelectually, 
>> would it be feasible too?  "If we were rich" a system of scientific 
>> committees could be created, seriously working during several years, at 
>> the style of the serious international cooperative work that have lead to 
>> the International System of Measurement Standards. So important was and 
>> has been the standardization of measurements, and we take it for granted. 
>> Curiously, it has an essential informational content regarding the 
>> "social brain"... Anyhow, only an important university could take charge 
>> of this genuine FIS itinerary. Alternatively, "if we were Linus", a 
>> Infopedia could organize the whole voluntary work... but how could we 
>> find our Linus?
>> Best wishes to all,
>> --Pedro

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