[Fis] Chuan's reply8 - THE FRONTIERS OF INTELLIGENCE SCIENCE-- an old poem as an echo
Pedro C. Marijuan
pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
Mon Mar 23 14:26:54 CET 2015
Dear Josh and colleagues,
I was planning to respond to Joseph's request too, but the arrival of
your message has complicated my thoughts. I could not concur more
forcefully with the basic contents you present! The "paradox of
information" statement is terrific. Next days I will respond more
cogently both to you and Joseph.
Thanks!
---Pedro
Joshua Augustus Bacigalupi wrote:
> Greetings All;
>
> I am new to your group, and am moved to contribute by the Machado
> passage posted by Pedro. Never have I read such a concise and
> eloquent rendering of how I've come to understand the dynamic physical
> process of mind and intelligence. The poetic focus this last week,
> and the thread's original "Far East" infusion, has been refreshing.
> However, I will try to contribute something towards a more formal
> expression of intelligence per Joe Brenner's suggestion.
>
> My own research has led me to a number of realizations, not the least
> of which, very generally stated, is that the question of cognition,
> mind, and intelligence will only be understood by embracing a paradox
> of information - not in the the Shannon sense, but in the significance
> to organisms sense.
>
> Namely, to be informed, in the sense that an agent's internal
> structure re-organizes so as to increase its chance of making
> significant choices in its indeterminate environment, is to do two
> seemingly contradictory things at once:
> 1) Re-organize so as to represent, or 'know', distinct objects and
> events in the agent's world that are relevant to it, and
> 2) Re-organize so as to represent, or 'know', the relevant
> inter-relations between these objects and events.
>
> And, the crux of the paradox is that these two behaviors
> are /simultaneous/. Put very briefly, agents evolved to do this, I
> suggest, because physical reality is itself both distinct events and
> their inter-relations, /simultaneously/. Here in lies the numerical
> intractability of the /n/-body problem; because, both the barionic
> masses and their gravitational attributes co-exist, not as a
> sequential processes, but as a single unified dynamic.
>
> It is here where I think this thread's openness to more (w)holistic
> world views can be very useful. Never the less, an /n/-body system,
> though numerically intractable, is still formally knowable to within
> knowable bounds. So, there is a both/and outcome, where distinct
> formalism, the so-called Western tradition, are employed as tools to
> both measure and influence the complex irreducible dynamics of
> self-adaptive systems.
>
> "Wanderer, your footsteps are the road, and nothing more; wanderer,
> there is no road, the road is made by walking."
>
> Celestial masses both form and are simultaneously formed by the
> dynamic gravitational terrain, an attribute intrinsically of the
> system. Similarly, I suggest that brain assemblages of neural, glial,
> and blood vessel cells both form and are simultaneously formed by
> their interstitial chemistry and fields into and out of complex
> terrains of mass and energy. Again, this system is intractable when
> assessed sequentially. There is a physical, and therefore,
> simultaneous dynamic between so-called parts and their whole.
>
> "By walking one makes the road, and upon glancing behind one sees the
> path that never will be again. Wanderer, there is no road - only
> wakes upon the sea."
>
> Amazing image. A beautiful rendering of a self-efficacious
> relationship between the distinct agent(s) and its(their) surroundings
> at every scale.
>
> Cordially,
> Josh
>
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan
> <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es <mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>> wrote:
>
> Dear FISers,
>
> Herewith my contribution to the "poetic intelligence" tangent we
> have entered.
> It is in Spanish, from the great poet Antonio Machado:
>
> Caminante, son tus huellas
> el camino y nada más;
> Caminante, no hay camino,
> se hace camino al andar.
> Al andar se hace el camino,
> y al volver la vista atrás
> se ve la senda que nunca
> se ha de volver a pisar.
> Caminante no hay camino
> sino estelas en la mar.
>
> One English translation could say:
>
> “Wanderer, your footsteps are the road, and nothing more;
> wanderer, there is no road, the road is made by walking. By
> walking one makes the road, and upon glancing behind one sees the
> path that never will be trod again. Wanderer, there is no road--
> Only wakes upon the sea."
>
> I find it quite moving, and extremely complex on its meaning,
> quite "phenomenological" and deeply neurophilosophical. But above
> all, impressive.
> Thanks are due to Chuan, Stan, Joseph, Francesco... et al.
> best---Pedro
>
> Lee todo en: Caminante no hay camino - Poemas de Antonio Machado
> <http://www.poemas-del-alma.com/antonio-machado-caminante-no-hay-camino.htm#ixzz3Uv6PQoJo>
> http://www.poemas-del-alma.com/antonio-machado-caminante-no-hay-camino.htm#ixzz3Uv6PQoJo
> Francesco Rizzo wrote:
>
> Caro Joseph e cari Tutti,
> anche se rischio di essere bloccato o frainteso perché non ho
> voce linguistica di moda, nei numerosi interventi precedenti
> ho sottolineato l'importanza della parola composta
> emo-ra-zionalità, risultato della combinazione della
> "intelligenza emotiva" e della razionalità intellettuale.
> Nessuna descrizione non poetica della realtà può essere
> completa. Ilya Prigogine ha proposto di adottare nel campo
> della scienza il paradigma della musica. Henri Poincarè
> ritiene, talvolta, le equazioni o le funzione un "museo
> teratologico" ed i modelli paradigmatici una scelta
> "convenzionale" o di comodità o di utilità. In "Incontro
> d'amore del cuore della fede e dell'intelligenza della
> scienza" (Aracne editrice, Roma, 2014) ho sostenuto la
> necessità del dialogo tra fede, ragione e scienza. Albert
> Einstein afferma che ciò che si può contare (computare) non
> conta e ciò che conta non si può contare (computare). Secondo
> John D. Barrow che gli "aspetti eventuali" del mondo non si
> possono riconoscere o generare con una sequenza di passi
> logici. La bellezza, la semplicità, la verità sono tutte, in
> questo senso, "proprietà eventuali". Non c'è alcuna formula
> magica o nessun programma o nessuna equazione che può generare
> tutta la bellezza o tutta la bruttezza del mondo. Le mail che
> ho inviato il 10, 15 e 18 marzo (non solo quest'ultima) in
> modo telegrafico affrontano questa problematica, purtroppo,
> non sono state tenute in considerazione. Ciò mi dispiace, ma
> non mi spinge a trascurare i contributi di tutti Voi che
> ringrazio per quanto m'insegnate. Grazie e affettuosi saluti.
> Francesco Rizzo.
>
> 2015-03-19 19:27 GMT+01:00 joe.brenner at bluewin.ch
> <mailto:joe.brenner at bluewin.ch> <mailto:joe.brenner at bluewin.ch
> <mailto:joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>> <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch
> <mailto:joe.brenner at bluewin.ch> <mailto:joe.brenner at bluewin.ch
> <mailto:joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>>>:
>
> Dear Chuan, Rafael and All,
>
> There is a point in this exchange which perhaps should be
> addressed explicitly: everybody knows that people differ
> in their
> capacity to appreciate poetry emotionally. But we also
> differ in
> the capacity to appreciate the importance of poetry and
> art for
> science; this might be said to require an
> 'intelligence' of poetry. Perhaps someone else can express
> better
> what I am trying to say here.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Joseph
>
> P.S. Admirers of Basho's haiku are directed to his far
> superior
> one to which this is a Californian response:
>
> Warm cloudy day in Spring
> Perched on a fresh leafy branch
> A young tow-hee
>
> ----Message d'origine----
> De : rafael at capurro.de <mailto:rafael at capurro.de>
> <mailto:rafael at capurro.de <mailto:rafael at capurro.de>>
> Date : 19/03/2015 - 08:35 (PST)
> À : fis at listas.unizar.es <mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>
> <mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es <mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>>
>
> Objet : Re: [Fis] Chuan's reply8 - THE FRONTIERS OF
> INTELLIGENCE SCIENCE-- an old poem as an echo
>
>
> Dear Chuan,
> thanks for sharing this poem.
> Allow me to thank you also with these texts where I try to
> reflect on Dao and Information Society
> http://www.capurro.de/china_infoethics2010.html
> This is a Chinese translation:
> http://www.capurro.de/beijing2011_chinese_version.pdf
> See also: http://www.capurro.de/DB_Akademie.html
> See also my activities and presentations in China:
> http://www.capurro.de/home-cn.html
> best regards
> Rafael Capurro
>
> Dear Stanley N Salthe and All,
>
> I am back to my duty from ten days hard work.
> Reliving from tired let me come back to the
> breakpoint –
> Stanley’s poem echo to Emily – and my draft reply
> as a new
> poem the same. I will finish and put out next mail
> – reply as
> another poem is “The Song of the Computer” and
> another poem
> on Internet. These two have send in our FIS years
> ago. And
> now “here a stay, and there a star”, now “
> struggling to
> affect each other from our slowly burning bodies”,
> let us put
> these stars here again as a bunch of flower first.
>
> Let this as my echo. We can image a
> Science fiction:
> long long after, there is a country, there set
> such an law :
> if you have not replied an poet’s poem at once, if
> delay five
> days, you are evil. So let me use an old poem echo
> your poem
> as soon as I finished my heavy work.
> Thanks for you poem. That is nice!
>
> More reply and the new later.
> Best wishes,
>
> Chuan
> 2015-3-19
>
>
>
> -- ---原始邮件-----
> *发件人:* "Stanley N Salthe"
> <ssalthe at binghamton.edu <mailto:ssalthe at binghamton.edu>>
> <mailto:ssalthe at binghamton.edu
> <mailto:ssalthe at binghamton.edu>>
> *发送时间:* 2015-03-14 03:41:00
> *收件人:* "赵川" <zhaoc at cdut.edu.cn
> <mailto:zhaoc at cdut.edu.cn>>
> <mailto:zhaoc at cdut.edu.cn
> <mailto:zhaoc at cdut.edu.cn>>
> *抄送:*
> *主题:* Re: [Fis] Chuan's reply7 - THE
> FRONTIERS OF
> INTELLIGENCE SCIENCE-- a poem & the π-festival
>
> Chuan, fis'rs
>
> Here is a poem I wrote a couple of years ago:
>
> internet fellowship
> is like --
>
> being in heaven?
>
>
> we’re
>
> disembodied spirits
>
> struggling to affect
>
> each other.
>
>
> patterns of ‘on and off’ in the waves and wires
>
> like cells in an organism
>
>
> we’re disembodied spirits launched from our
> slowly
> burning bodies,
>
> the fuel for our cognitions,
>
> like charcoal for a flame
>
>
> maybe this is (what) heaven (is like)
>
> launched upon the embers of hell.
>
>
> STAN
>
> On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 11:18 AM, 赵川
> <zhaoc at cdut.edu.cn <mailto:zhaoc at cdut.edu.cn>
> <mailto:zhaoc at cdut.edu.cn
> <mailto:zhaoc at cdut.edu.cn>>> wrote:
>
> *Dear FISers, *
>
> These days I am doing a heavy and
> important
> work that I can not finish my respond
> mail. Though
> there are many ideas emerge in my mind.
>
> Let me put a poem of Emily
> DIKINSON in our
> dear discussion.
> *OUR SHARE OF NIGHT TO BEAR*
>
>
>
> Emily DIKINSON
>
> Our share of nights to hear –
>
> Our share of morning –
>
> Our blank in bliss to fill
>
> Our blank in scorning –
>
>
> Here a star, and there a star,
>
> Some lose their way!
>
> Here a mist, and there a mist,
>
> Afterwards – Day!
>
> 1890
>
> c.1859
>
> For I thought of the image of
> “here is a
> star, and there is a star” and looked for
> this poem
> to share here. Let us shine and share.
>
> Dear Joseph, I agree with the
> Stanislaw
> Lem’s opinion.
>
> Yes, she is right: afterwards – Day!
>
> Tomorrow is π-festival – March 14
> - 3.14. I
> celebrated aπ-festival this afternoon. That is
> wonderful. And it is the birthday of
> Einstein the same.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Chuan
>
> March 13, 2015
>
>
>
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>
>
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>
>
>
> -- Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro
> Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany
> Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics
> (http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org)
> Distinguished Researcher at the African Centre of
> Excellence for Information Ethics (ACEIE), Department of
> Information Science, University of Pretoria, South Africa.
> Chair, International Center for Information Ethics
> (ICIE) (http://icie.zkm.de)
> Editor in Chief, International Review of Information
> Ethics (IRIE) (http://www.i-r-i-e.net)
> Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe,
> Germany
> E-Mail: rafael at capurro.de <mailto:rafael at capurro.de>
> <mailto:rafael at capurro.de <mailto:rafael at capurro.de>>
> Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22
> <tel:%2B%2049%20-%20721%20-%2098%2022%209%20-%2022> (Fax: -21)
> Homepage: www.capurro.de <http://www.capurro.de>
> <http://www.capurro.de>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------
> Pedro C. Marijuán
> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
> Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
> Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
> Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
> 50009 Zaragoza, Spain
> Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 <tel:%2B34%20976%2071%203526> (& 6818)
> pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es <mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
> http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
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>
--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
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