[Fis] "The Travellers"

[John Collier]

Folks,

I agree with Pedro that the meaning issue is 
important. After trying to give a coherent 
account within established information theory for 
a number of years (starting with "Intrinsic 
Information" in 1990) I came to the conclusion 
that information theory was not enough, and 
admitted that at the Biosemiotics Gathering in 
Tartu about ten years ago. I now believe that 
semiotics is the way to go to understand meaning, 
and that information theory alone is inadequate to the task.

Of course information theory could be extended, 
but I think the correct extension is semiotics. 
As Pedro said, we have not got agreement in many 
years. I think it is time to give it up and move 
into semiotics if we want to fully understand 
information. In direct opposition to Pedro's 
appeal to the Travellers metaphor, I think that 
history has shown that semiotics is distinct from 
information theory, and that information theory 
should restrict itself to the grounds that it has 
already accomplished. Oddly, Pedro seems to be 
saying that information theory includes meaning 
in exactly the opposite way to the way that 
gypsies do not historically include Travellers. So I don't get his argument.

I believe that without an explicit theory of 
signs, we cannot hope to get a theory of meaning 
from the idea of information alone. I would not 
be upset if I were proven wrong.

My best,
John

At 02:35 PM 2014-10-23, Pedro C. Marijuan wrote:
>Dear FIS colleagues,
>
>Regarding the theme of physical information raised by Igor and Joseph,
>the main problematic aspect of information (meaning) is missing there.
>One can imagine that as two physical systems interact, each one may be
>metaphorically attributed with meaning respect the changes experimented.
>But it is an empty attribution that does not bring any further
>interesting aspect. Conversely we see "real" elaboration of meaning in
>the cellular structures of life, particularly in brains, and we see in
>our societies how scientific, technological, and economic advancements
>are bringing together more and more flows of information around (social
>complexity and information completely dovetail, and that's a very
>important feature). Together with physical information (information
>theory, logics, symmetry, etc.) each one of those realms has something
>important to tell us regarding the unifying perspective necessary to
>make sense of the different approaches to information: we have to
>carefully listen to all of them. Thus, at the time being, the mission of
>information science --or FIS at least-- would remind "The Travellers",
>those people in the UK and Ireland, pretendedly "gypsies", who live a
>nomadic life camping from site to site...  It may look unfortunate for
>the disciplinarily specialized parties, but  we cannot settle any
>permanent info camp --seemingly for quite a long time.
>
>best --Pedro
>
>-------------------------------------------------
>Pedro C. Marijuán
>Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
>Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
>Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
>Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
>50009 Zaragoza, Spain
>Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
>pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
>http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
>-------------------------------------------------
>
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----------
John Collier                                     collierj at ukzn.ac.za
Philosophy, University of KwaZulu-Natal, Durban 4041 South Africa
T: +27 (31) 260 3248 / 260 2292       F: +27 (31) 260 3031
Http://web.ncf.ca/collier