[Fis] The Constructal Law

Tue Nov 11 23:03:38 CET 2014

Dear Pedro,

I would be very interested, and I believe other FISers also, in your views 
of the seriousness of the constructal law as a fundamental law of nature, as 
claimed. I thought that for flow to occur it is sufficient to have some kind 
of energy gradient which must operate in a context of any other forces 
present. In the case of rain drops, these will include surface tension and 
so on.

I think a comparison is called for with Gerhard Luhn's Causal-Compositional 
Concept of Information which also talks about the emergence of new 'laws', 
or lawful behavior, in the universe. His approach is grounded in the 2nd Law 
of Thermodynamics, as is Bejan's, but the Pauli Exclusion Principle is 
suggested as the driver toward complex systems. Bejan's concepts seem to me 
more ad hoc, but I am curious to know how they strike others.

Best regards,

Joseph

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pedro C. Marijuan" <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
To: <fis at listas.unizar.es>
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 5:27 PM
Subject: [Fis] The Two Systems

> Dear FIS colleages,
>
> Thanks for the opinions received. Let us keep thinking about the issue. On 
> the one side, the fis list was explicitly conceived to be a helping 
> mechanism for "slow thinking" during the 90's. The Second Rule was 
> incorporated quite a few years ago, to put an end to nasty bubbles and 
> unceasing exchanges on trifling matters. It was not only a matter of too 
> many messages, but also that very influential parties left the list due to 
> those excesses (eg, Michael Arbib, Otto Rossler, Eduard Punset).
> It is interesting that Daniel Kahneman speaks about two  thinking systems: 
> System 1: Fast, automatic, frequent, emotional, stereotypic, subconscious. 
> System 2: Slow, effortful, infrequent, logical, calculating, conscious...
> Trying to implement the two thinking systems in the same list will 
> inevitably conduce (given the medium) to the preponderance of the former. 
> Mixed schemes will be confusing and will not work. Besides, increasing the 
> number of weekly messages to 3 or 4 will imply that 50 % or 100 % more 
> messages will be received. Not good at all.
> Solution? Raquel and I are working (slowly, too slowly ) to migrate from 
> current FIS web pages at the University of Zaragoza to Sciforum (courtesy 
> from Shu-Kun Lin). It is also possible that we recuperate ALL exchanges 
> during last 17 years--lost during the ignominious server crash a few 
> months ago, it would become just anecdote. At Sciforum we will be able to 
> incorporate complementary spaces where fast and furious exchanges might be 
> maintained (for those frequent-post addicts), perhaps useful to accompany 
> the main, quiet discussion---or maybe the viceversa, the slow thinking 
> serving as a complement!
>
> Well, at the time being, let us continue abiding by the Second Rule, and 
> let us wait for the changes...  we should also prepare for the Vienna 
> encounter. By the way, a very interesting meeting refers to Adrian Bejan's 
> work on the "energy flow" that I mentioned days ago: the 9th Constructal 
> Law conference will be held in Parma on 18-19 May 2015, see:
>
> http://www.clc2015.eu/
>
> best regards to all---Pedro
>
>
> Stanley N Salthe wrote:
>> I agree with Jerry
>>
>> STAN
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 2:00 PM, pedro marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es 
>> <mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>     BlackBerry de movistar, allí donde estés está tu oficin@
>>
>>     -----Original Message-----
>>     From: Jerry LR Chandler <jerry_lr_chandler at me.com
>>     <mailto:jerry_lr_chandler at me.com>>
>>     Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 10:37:32
>>     To: Pedro C. Marijuan<pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
>>     <mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>>
>>     Subject: FIS, Weekly posting frequency.
>>
>>     Pedro:
>>
>>     Just a small suggestion about the rules for posting to the FIS
>>     list serve.
>>
>>     Personally, I find the current constraint of two posts per week is
>>     so restrictive that it makes a conversation very difficult.  It
>>     necessitates long delays, during which time, one looses interest
>>     in the topic.  (We are flooded by a plethora of new ideas!)
>>
>>     I feel that the value of the list would be enhanced by permitting
>>     three or even four posts per week.
>>
>>     I would suggest that you consult with other members about this issue.
>>
>>     You may post this message to the list serve if you wish.
>>
>>     Cheers
>>
>>     Jerry
>>
>>
>>     On Nov 3, 2014, at 5:09 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan wrote:
>>
>>     > Dear Marcin and colleagues,
>>     >
>>     > Many thanks for the sympathy and for the suggestion. I think
>>     your proposal is quite in the spirit of the fis initiative.
>>     Maintaining the academic code of conduct should be the First Rule
>>     of the list. The Second Rule, as is well known, says that only two
>>     messages per week are allowed. And the Third Rule, should be about
>>     clean posting. I mean, in order to placate the susceptibility of
>>     the server filters the messages should be addressed only to fis,
>>     exclusively, (a few other addresses might appear in the "cc", but
>>     the lesser the better), and not dragging old messages at the
>>     bottom is strongly recommended... Additionally, we have a fis
>>     steering committee (integrated by Yixin, Krassimir, Shu-Kun, and
>>     myself) that can arbitrate in contentious cases where the First
>>     Rule should apply.
>>     >
>>     > Let us forget the present incident; always clarifying that FIS
>>     list is completely open to criticisms, first on fis itself, and
>>     also addressed to any other school or doctrine, either
>>     contemporary or from the past... knowing the opinion of
>>     "contrarians" is as much important as knowing the opinions of the
>>     followers. INFORMATION HAS ENORMOUSLY CHANGED OUR
>>     SCIENTIFIC-ECONOMIC-CULTURAL-SOCIAL WORLD AND WE NEED RADICALLY
>>     DIFFERENT IDEAS. By the way, there is an important work on "social
>>     physics" (but arguing from the information flow point of view) by
>>     Alex Pentland that in my opinion establishes the very foundations
>>     of "SOCIAL INFORMATION SCIENCE"--it is a pity, and possibly  an
>>     error (?), that this author has placed his exciting research under
>>     the banner of physics.
>>     >
>>     > best wishes ---Pedro
>>     >
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> -------------------------------------------------
> Pedro C. Marijuán
> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
> Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
> Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
> Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
> 50009 Zaragoza, Spain
> Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
> pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
> http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
> -------------------------------------------------
>
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