<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><br><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Dear Pedro and All,</div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Hot love versus cautious, caring love and its relation to art, a superposition of intentional states when in synch can be form of love or art. We have to look at both the form, the pragmatics of intentions and the utility or value or emotions. Much like Yixin Zhong does in his view of the architecture of intelligence.</div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Eric</div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">P.S. As stated before: </div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Marcus,</span><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Yes, it seems that consciousness involves more than functional states which are just abstractions of multiple instances or instantiations. Consciousness seems to require being integrated in a body that perceives and has the ability to represent and perhaps even intentionality is required for being conscious of what is intended. </div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Yet I can imagine a passive consciousness that only absorbs and does not respond, such as when I feel the covering of a blanket on my skin. But I am sure a neurologist will say that presupposes all kinds of extras. But it seems logically possible that a stone can be aware but unable to act much like a paralyzed human or animal. At least many people project such onto all kinds of objects, events and processes. And that these paralyzed but conscious objects can act on us through their thoughts alone, so some believe. It is possible but hard to prove. </div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Intending to do something with or to someone or something requires multiple simultaneous conscious, semiconscious and unconscious processes. Intending is a level up from simply being aware. The evil demon cooking up plans in his lair. The goddess trying to same something or someone. </div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Doing Art is a mixture of conscious other processes at least when done by me. An LLM may even outperform us in generating Art that others react to. So Art as generation versus Art as perception or reaction to. </div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">The art of the technique of the master craftsman is also Art, I believe. This is different than the marketing agents that try to make profit from some scribble or pile by calling it ‘Art’. That is Art in an economy of profiteering by creating illusions of associated grandeur by owing socially cherished artifacts. Social emotional manipulation.</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">But I believe there is true Art beyond hyped ‘Art’ and we feel it when we see or experience it. </div></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jan 27, 2026, at 9:34 PM, Pedro C. Marijuán <pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear All,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">It is a pity that we have not provided
sufficient discussion yet on the link between biological
capabilities (at least, in advanced mammals) and the emergence of
human aesthetic/artistic impulses.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I will make some crazy comments or bold
speculations, as you prefer. </div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">As was pointed weeks ago, in quite
different animal species there appears a clear preference for
shapes, colors, movements, compositions, etc. that show aesthetic
value for the human observer. Almost universally it is related to
mating, courtship and also to the rearing of the offspring.
Mammalian parenting, for instance, includes hormonal,
neurological, and social mechanisms with ad hoc forms of sound
& visual communication, lullabies, songs, etc. I referred days
ago to Manfred Clynes' sentic forms--quite easy to find in the way
mammals (and humans) produce their sounds and making "adorable" to
their creatures. It is a common trait of mammalian placental
clades (quite probably).</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Well, that stock of frequently
(neotenic) preferences for forms and sounds, and related emotions,
gets expanded along human evolution. Again, courtship, man-female
bonding, and child rearing are in the center. A term almost absent
from any discussions appears: "love". It is at the very nucleus of
our species survival. Yes. It creates a transcendent attachment to
your pair, to your children--and beyond. Falling in love is
something that in my opinion is not far from the complex that
generates the extreme forms of art, those of the very, very few
that have civilization consequences. Actually, that capability
would be distributed along a continuum, with most people unable to
feel or sense real or extreme artworks. But of course, the need
for the "extra trophic" keeps being almost universal on the human
sociotype, as I was arguing days ago regarding entertainment
industries, mass music, tourism, etc. --and this generates a
continuous stream of demi or pseudo arts. Well, they are needed
for social well being, presumably, certainly. They are arts too.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">And that was all!</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">With love--Pedro</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> , El 21/01/2026 a las 1:16, Csáji
László Koppány escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAPeWkSWZNnb+GYyVb9D3gZbYuUiZap33sKH9B8Ym59KErgdFoQ@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em">Dear John,
Marcus, Louis, Eric, Mark, and all FiS colleagues,</div>
<div style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em">We have
witnessed excellent argumentations that were both inspiring
and thought provking. I am grateful to participate.</div>
<div style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em">I circulate
around an easy question after all these considerations: how
the cellars' cognitive functions, self-cognition, and
consciousness relate to each other, and how "emotion" as a
factor links to them. Theoretically, all living creatures
differ from crystals, stones, fluid, or aeriform materials by
having a kind of "decision-making"--an ability of "willing"
that gives them a "plus". </div>
<div style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em">Nevertheless,
this ability is not an art form; it is just a differentia
specifica between living ones and those that exist without a
decision-making gift (capability). Art seems to be a step
further, which elevates the material environment to a level
that could be called "super-consciousness", or something like
that. Super-consciousness empowers us not only to shape the
world but to imagine it in another way, and create "new
realities"--in a way that would not be possible physically.</div>
<div style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em">This kind of
imagination--that exceeds the animals' "rationality"
(causability?), creativity, and communicative acts...</div>
<div style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em">Can we
specify--and how can we?--such a "plus" (I called it a "human
spark" in my initial paper), or is this evolutionary thesis
just a delusion?</div>
<div style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em">Cheers,</div>
<div> László </div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Mark Johnson <<a href="mailto:johnsonmwj1@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">johnsonmwj1@gmail.com</a>>
ezt írta (időpont: 2026. jan. 19., H, 10:05):<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Yes! Thank you Joe!</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 19 Jan 2026 at
08:33, <<a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div style="font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,helvetica,sans-serif">
<span style="font-size:13pt">Dear John,</span> </div>
<div style="font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,helvetica,sans-serif"> </div>
<div style="font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,helvetica,sans-serif">
<span style="font-size:13pt">We have not talked to
each other recently, but I follow your work with
interest and wanted to applaud the last three lines
of your 19.1 note: ... </span><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:BlinkMacSystemFont,-apple-system,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Oxygen,Ubuntu,Cantarell,"Fira Sans","Droid Sans","Helvetica Neue",sans-serif;font-size:large">"the
'logic' of the Cosmos. Symbiogenesis is the
mechanism by which life has acquired the logic of
the Cosmos. In other words there is a continuum from
the foundations of the Cosmos to life that is
expressed in art."</span> </div>
<div style="font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,helvetica,sans-serif"> </div>
<div style="font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,helvetica,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:BlinkMacSystemFont,-apple-system,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Oxygen,Ubuntu,Cantarell,"Fira Sans","Droid Sans","Helvetica Neue",sans-serif;font-size:large">The
image it evoked was that of my sculptor father,
Michael Brenner, making a bust of me at age 10 in
his studio in New York. He danced around his easel
in a frenzy <em>(frénésie) </em>, chopping away at
the emerging marble head, sweating and grunting. Art
comes more easily to many, but I suggest that its
becoming is always partly unconscious, an expression
of the energetic foundations of existence.</span> </div>
<div style="font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,helvetica,sans-serif"> </div>
<div style="font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,helvetica,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:BlinkMacSystemFont,-apple-system,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Oxygen,Ubuntu,Cantarell,"Fira Sans","Droid Sans","Helvetica Neue",sans-serif;font-size:large">Cheers,</span>
</div>
<div style="font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,helvetica,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:BlinkMacSystemFont,-apple-system,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Oxygen,Ubuntu,Cantarell,"Fira Sans","Droid Sans","Helvetica Neue",sans-serif;font-size:large">Joe</span>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>------but ---- Message d'origine ----------</div>
<div>De : JOHN TORDAY <<a href="mailto:jtorday@ucla.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jtorday@ucla.edu</a>></div>
<div>À : fis <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>></div>
<div>Date : 17.01.2026 22:58 CET</div>
<div>Sujet : [Fis] What is Art?</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div dir="ltr"> <span style="font-size:large">Dear
FIS, I am of the opinion that art is an expression
of consciousness, raising the question Art as to
what consciousness is? I fell down this 'rabbit
hole' twenty years ago, having performed a series
of experiments to understand how and why
Parathyroid Hormone-related Protein (PTHrP) is
necessary for the formation of alveoli in the lung
(<span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:BlinkMacSystemFont,-apple-system,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Oxygen,Ubuntu,Cantarell,"Fira Sans","Droid Sans","Helvetica Neue",sans-serif">Rubin
LP, Kovacs CS, De Paepe ME, Tsai SW, Torday JS,
Kronenberg HM. Arrested pulmonary alveolar
cytodifferentiation and defective surfactant
synthesis in mice missing the gene for
parathyroid hormone-related protein. Dev Dyn.
2004 Jun;230(2):278-89)? The duplication of the
PTHrP Receptor gene during the water-land
transition amplified all of the vertebrate
physiologic adaptations to land- lungs, kidneys,
skeleton, skin- and since PTHrP is a
stretch-sensitive gene, I tested the hypothesis
that PTHrP mediated the vertebrate adaptation to
the force of gravity. If cells are exposed to
zero gravity they lose their differentiated
phenotypes (i.e. they devolve), and when yeast
are exposed to zero gravity they cannot conduct
a calcium flux, meaning that they are
unconscious. Moreover, human consciousness has
been driven by bipedalism (</span><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:BlinkMacSystemFont,-apple-system,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Oxygen,Ubuntu,Cantarell,"Fira Sans","Droid Sans","Helvetica Neue",sans-serif">Torday
JS. A central theory of biology. Med Hypotheses.
2015 Jul;85(1):49-57)</span><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:BlinkMacSystemFont,-apple-system,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Oxygen,Ubuntu,Cantarell,"Fira Sans","Droid Sans","Helvetica Neue",sans-serif">,
freeing our forelimbs for tool making, including
language as a tool, and locomotion. Importantly,
both language and locomotion are under control
by the FoxP2 gene, so that positive selection
pressure for FoxP2 would have coordinately
stimulated language and locomotion, expressed
through our hands and minds as art of all kinds-
literature, painting, sculpture, music- in other
words, art is a manifestation of our need to
communicate with our environment and with other
humans.</span></span>
<div> <span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:BlinkMacSystemFont,-apple-system,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Oxygen,Ubuntu,Cantarell,"Fira Sans","Droid Sans","Helvetica Neue",sans-serif;font-size:large"> </span>
</div>
<div> <span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:BlinkMacSystemFont,-apple-system,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Oxygen,Ubuntu,Cantarell,"Fira Sans","Droid Sans","Helvetica Neue",sans-serif;font-size:large">Furthermore,
all of the above is due to the evolution of
homeostatic control of energy due to
Symbiogenesis (Sagan, 1967), or the assimilation
of factors in the environment that threaten
homeostasis, including the elements in the
Cosmos, the latter being an exaptation (Gould
and Vrba, 1982) of Stellar Nucleosynthesis
(Hoyle, 1946), or the serial chemical reaction
of hydrogen and helium to form the stars, the
elements being their byproducts in the exact
order of their atomic masses as thec</span> </div>
<div> <span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:BlinkMacSystemFont,-apple-system,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Oxygen,Ubuntu,Cantarell,"Fira Sans","Droid Sans","Helvetica Neue",sans-serif;font-size:large">Your
comments and criticisms are welcomed.</span> </div>
<div> <span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:BlinkMacSystemFont,-apple-system,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Oxygen,Ubuntu,Cantarell,"Fira Sans","Droid Sans","Helvetica Neue",sans-serif;font-size:large"> </span>
</div>
<div> <span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:BlinkMacSystemFont,-apple-system,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Oxygen,Ubuntu,Cantarell,"Fira Sans","Droid Sans","Helvetica Neue",sans-serif;font-size:large">Best,
John</span> </div>
<div> <span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:BlinkMacSystemFont,-apple-system,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Oxygen,Ubuntu,Cantarell,"Fira Sans","Droid Sans","Helvetica Neue",sans-serif;font-size:large"> </span>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<div><br clear="all">
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">Dr. Mark William Johnson<br>
<div dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">Faculty of
Biology, Medicine and Health</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">University of
Manchester</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">Department of Science
Education</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">University of Copenhagen</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">Department of Eye and
Vision Science (honorary)</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">University of Liverpool</div>
Phone: 07786 064505<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:johnsonmwj1@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">johnsonmwj1@gmail.com</a><br>
Blog: <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://dailyimprovisation.blogspot.com__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Sy7jan0S4s1YFJpHuN4D-sV3gAfrxhhzBQF7S5MiBU45idZ4yPypxUsX1z9vO1PzMfnDub5JA9QC0iwpcgYHY1M$" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://dailyimprovisation.blogspot.com</a></div>
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<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Fis mailing list</span><br><span>Fis@listas.unizar.es</span><br><span><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a></span><br><span>----------</span><br><span>INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL</span><br><span></span><br><span>Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.</span><br><span>Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: <a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a></span><br><span>Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.</span><br><span><a href="http://listas.unizar.es">http://listas.unizar.es</a></span><br><span>----------</span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>