<div dir="ltr">Dear Steve,<div>I must think on your comment and opinion some more a little bit. As a quick</div><div>response: thank you for taking this conversation seriously: the comparative </div><div>experimental study could be a base for producing acceptable evidences, I </div><div>totally agree with you. All the other ideas might be exciled to speculations </div><div>by those who disagree with them (anyway, speculations seem necessary, as </div><div>we cannot go back in time to the down of human evolution, for instance). The </div><div>methodology should also be well considered before starting to laboratory </div><div>work. Can you suggest some of such research results, papers? </div><div>Best wishes,</div><div> László </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Steve Watson <<a href="mailto:sw10014@cam.ac.uk">sw10014@cam.ac.uk</a>> ezt írta (időpont: 2026. jan. 11., V, 21:43):<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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Dear László, Gordana, Mark, Pedro, Kate, John, and colleagues,</div>
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Picking up on László’s request for evidence about “actually art” (not just beauty ratings or film clips), and Gordana’s pufferfish puzzle: one way forward is to treat “art” less as a single trait and more as a stabilised operation that can be studied comparatively.</div>
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A minimal operational handle might be: art-like practices are those that generate re-enterable forms (rhythm/gesture/mark/object) that reorganise attention and affect and become socially taken up (repeated, copied, curated, evaluated, ritualised). This gives
us things to measure without settling the metaphysics of consciousness.</div>
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Concretely, that suggests at least four empirical “ports of entry”:</div>
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1) Entrainment and joint attention (music, chant, dance; coordination dynamics);</div>
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2) Expectation/violation and predictive timing (why some patterns feel compelling);</div>
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3) Trace, durability, and re-entry (what media make forms revisitable and transmissible);</div>
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4) Uptake and norming (how groups converge on “this counts” and stabilise conventions).</div>
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The pufferfish case is interesting here: it looks like an ecology where a particular medium (sand), repeated performance, and mate-choice attention stabilise an elaborate, repeatable form—continuity at the level of operations (salience/selection + trace), even
if cumulative culture differs.</div>
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Best wishes, </div>
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Steve</div>
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<span style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_MSFontService,-apple-system,Roboto,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Sent from
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://aka.ms/o0ukef__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XqKmQC17Q9TFbGaZ_LJBvdP09nbPIDo2Y60vbq3i1zlvOS8xYntvY7gkoQsHQZ0slq6VmkWT25KtnmnDnB0b1RAQeQ$" target="_blank">Outlook for iOS</a></span></div>
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<div id="m_-4478756523520091877divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Fis <<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>> on behalf of Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic <<a href="mailto:gordana.dodig-crnkovic@mdu.se" target="_blank">gordana.dodig-crnkovic@mdu.se</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, January 11, 2026 4:17:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Csáji László Koppány <<a href="mailto:csaji.koppany@gmail.com" target="_blank">csaji.koppany@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a> <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] Art and the Cognitive (Is art a human phenomenon?)</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div lang="en-SE" style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div>
<p><span lang="HR" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book"">Dear
</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book"">László</span><span lang="HR" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book""></span></p>
<p><span lang="HR" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book""> </span></p>
<p><span lang="HR" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book"">What confuses me is that this little fish makes such a huge effort to produce (for us, and probably for similar fish) such a beautiful artifact.</span></p>
<p><span lang="HR" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book"">It would function even without the elaborate structure pufferfish is making.</span></p>
<p><span lang="HR" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book""> </span></p>
<p><span lang="HR" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book"">If we look at art from the point of view of cognitive function, and we claim cognition shows evolutionary continuity
<br>
(e.g. „From Bacteria to Bach and Back“, Dennett) why dont we see some reasonable continuity in artifacts production?</span></p>
<p><span lang="HR" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book""> </span></p>
<p><span lang="HR" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book"">I am not aware of monkeys spontanously producing artifact of similar complexity.</span></p>
<p><span lang="HR" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book"">Searching for reasonable way to understand what this little fish is doing.</span></p>
<p><span lang="HR" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book""> </span></p>
<p><span lang="HR" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book"">It is a communicative act, and it works, but why is it so extremely elaborate?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book""> </span></p>
<p><span lang="HR" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book"">All the best,</span></p>
<p><span lang="HR" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book"">Gordana</span></p>
<p><span lang="HR" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book""> </span></p>
<p><span lang="HR" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book""> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span></p>
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<p><b><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">Csáji László Koppány <<a href="mailto:csaji.koppany@gmail.com" target="_blank">csaji.koppany@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Sunday, 11 January 2026 at 20:30<br>
<b>To: </b>Gordana CHALMERS <<a href="mailto:dodig@chalmers.se" target="_blank">dodig@chalmers.se</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>" <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Fis] Art and the Cognitive (Is art a human phenomenon?)</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Dear Gordana,</p>
<div>
<p>Yes, the question is totally valid. Some birs' mating dance or excellent nests, some fish-built dwellings </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>or other structures really seems art - for humans. But aren't them only functional behaviors that are </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>"recognized" as art only by us? This really turns us back to the fundamental question - what art is, how</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>we define it? Can beauty be considered without interest or function for an animal? For humans - yes.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>I am - of course - only loudly thinking. I am not sure for the anser to my question yet, so I really thank</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>for thinking together!</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Best regards,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p> László </p>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p>Gordana Dodig Crnkovic <<a href="mailto:dodig@chalmers.se" target="_blank">dodig@chalmers.se</a>> ezt írta (időpont: 2026. jan. 11., V, 9:57):</p>
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<p><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book"">Dear
</span><span style="font-family:"Avenir Book"">László,</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book""> </span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book"">Thank you for opening this important question.</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book"">What do you think about this fish art?</span></p>
<p><span lang="SV" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book""><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.pbslearningmedia.org/resource/a-pufferfishs-masterpiece/a-pufferfishs-masterpiece/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UTJhK5INBASbWZLZ0JkLf9l1e4Ku-XUZFWWLyzVUPRN3gjXbABoUpV5G9oM4ccu1aqSdUHYaIFjSSCb-sgTumeug9ljt4A$" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-GB">https://www.pbslearningmedia.org/resource/a-pufferfishs-masterpiece/a-pufferfishs-masterpiece/</span></a></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book""> </span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book"">All the best,</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book"">Gordana</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book""> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Avenir Book""> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:"Avenir Book""><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://gordana.se/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UTJhK5INBASbWZLZ0JkLf9l1e4Ku-XUZFWWLyzVUPRN3gjXbABoUpV5G9oM4ccu1aqSdUHYaIFjSSCb-sgTumes47vNBRA$" title="http://gordana.se/" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">http://gordana.se/</span></a></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Avenir Light",sans-serif"> </span></p>
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<p><b><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">Fis <<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>> on behalf of "Pedro C. Marijuán" <<a href="mailto:pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com" target="_blank">pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, 9 January 2026 at 22:25<br>
<b>To: </b>Csáji László Koppány <<a href="mailto:csaji.koppany@gmail.com" target="_blank">csaji.koppany@gmail.com</a>>, "<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>" <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Fis] Art and the Cognitive (Is art a human phenomenon?)</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Dear<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> László,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Thanks a lot for your exposition. It is great counting with a point of view from someone in the humanities camp.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Having worked recently on a BioSystems special issue on Anthropogenesis, I have no trouble to admit that art(s) are a species specific trait of the Homo genus, discussing whether its beginnings belong to Homo Erectus, Antecessor,
Neanderthal, or Sapiens. Artifacts with a truly esthetic sense are found in the later ones, and some traces are presumed in the others. Origins of art(s)? In my opinion they appear as an "overflow" derived from two sources: the strong brain demands from social
groups involved in emerging linguistic practices, plus a strange aesthetic impulse that i do not know how to qualify (and perhaps has a deep biological significance). Your Vectors 2 & 1, Communication and Creativity would look congruent with this initial rumination.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>In sum, when you ask "Do you agree or disagree that art is a human ability? If yes or no: what kind of evidence can we set up for the argumentation?" </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>My response is yes, and the best evidences would stem from anthropogenesis, from archeology, from current anthropology, and from new neuroscience approaches to Art (but not enough! The aesthetic impulse looks quite enigmatic
to me, maybe close to the transcendent). </p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>This was my initial reaction, I will read more carefully your text and the ongoing argumentation.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Let me thank, again, your work for the FIS New Year Lecture!</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Best--Pedro </p>
<p style="margin-bottom:12pt;text-align:justify;line-height:14pt">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Palatino Linotype",serif;color:black"> </span></p>
<p>. El 09/01/2026 a las 0:59, Csáji László Koppány escribió:</p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom:8pt;text-align:justify;line-height:105%">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Dear FIS Colleagues,</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:8pt;text-align:justify;line-height:105%">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">This is rather a starting point of a conversation than a report of research results; a call to think together and share our thoughts and knowledge. The question in this kick-off text is very simple:
Is art a human ability? As a social and cultural anthropologist, I conducted fieldworks in Asia, Africa, and Europe over the last few decades. Art penetrates our everyday life and rituals; just think of the built environment, music, design, literature, fine
arts, vernacular arts, etc. I have recently published a paper that addresses art(s), aiming to develop a new definition from the perspective of cognitive sciences (see:
</span><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:105%;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.mdpi.com/3042-8084/2/1/1__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QMhJvU3t9o-eVI16E99VZkqXDdBSeEZIyrn9pPXel1iFL7OyQ2OecuICg7GrSJwKlryBYEbudcxEiWiplQs0c7O45afi$" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(5,99,193)">Toward
a Multidimensional Definition of Art from the Perspective of Cognitive Sciences | MDPI</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">). My attached kick-off text largely relies on this long paper.
</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:8pt;text-align:justify;line-height:105%">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Numerous attempts to define art have been made from antiquity to the present, yet historical overviews often adopt a Eurocentric (and American-centric) perspective focused mainly on culturally dependent
aesthetic approaches. As a universal social and cultural phenomenon, art resists center-periphery models. Art is not merely a unique representation of reality, but also an ability to create new realities and thereby shape society. Art has attracted and accompanied
people from the dawn of history. Some argue that acquiring the ability to create and appreciate art was one of the few important steps in the process of becoming Homo Sapiens. Thus, it is a universal phenomenon that spans ages and cultures—arising from something
fundamentally human. However, is it really fundamentally human? What gives its "merely" human factor? Do our experiences (image) on AI development </span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">and its social functions support this idea? Ethologists,
cognitive scientists, and psychologists often over-emphasize one element (e.g., visual symmetry-asymmetry, harmony, beauty, etc.) of art(s) that seems suitable for their research methods. This seems a pragmatic and reasonable solution, but it easily obscures
the “big picture” and the core of the problem. Thus, it remains a question how art can be considered as a human activity. Consequently, artists and scholars have been preoccupied since ancient times with the question of what art is, or how certain prominent
forms of art (visual arts, drama, music, literature, etc.) work. Nevertheless, the abstract concept of art is not expressed by a notion (word) in every culture. There are significant differences in the use of the words linked to art. Moreover, the meaning
of art has changed continuously and significantly over time, albeit at different rates.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-align:justify;line-height:14pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">The cognitive turn reshaped art theory by reconsidering art as a cognitive dimension of humanity. Art has no limits on who can create or enjoy it. The ability to use and understand
metaphor, for instance, demonstrates everyday human artistic cognition. I introduced a simple vectorial model t</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">hat </span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">aligns
closely with the idea of family resemblance in the sense that cognitive semantics conceives it as a kind of categorization (meaning construction). T</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">his a 3D model rather than a simple
definition. </span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">Since art lacks a single, definitive prototype, no strict, universal definition can capture all its forms in a yes or no spectrum. My filed studies s</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">howed
me </span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">the variability of artistic practices (in craft, value, range of affect, etc.) that can be placed in different ways within a space (and not a category) of art. In this model, three coordinates
form a space. These vectors (coordinates) are equally relevant cognitive aspects: 1. Creativity, 2. Communication, 3. Experience. For further, detailed argumentation see the attached file. </span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-align:justify;line-height:14pt">
<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">Dear FIS members, dear colleagues in different scientific disciplines! Do you agree or disagree that art is a human ability? If yes or no: what kind of evidence can we set up for the argumentation? </span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-align:justify;line-height:14pt">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Palatino Linotype",serif;color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-align:justify;line-height:14pt">
<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">Best regards,</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-align:justify;line-height:14pt">
<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> László Koppány Csáji</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-align:justify;line-height:14pt">
<span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-align:justify;line-height:14pt">
<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">P.s. See t</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">he attac</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">hed file for further
details and argumentation</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> </span></p>
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<p> </p>
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