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<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">reminder, life did not start with individuals. it started with groups. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">bacteria were our ancestors. as james shapiro pointed out to me, it you strand a bacterium on her own, she refuses to be solitary. she multiplies to create her own social group.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">and bacteria in social groups communicate. they exchange information.</div><div><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span>with warmth and oomph--howard</span><br></div><div><br></div>
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On Friday, November 21, 2025 at 03:22:17 PM EST, Pedro C. Marijuán <pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com> wrote:
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<div class="ydp9d9375c1yiv2291103190moz-cite-prefix">Hi, </div>
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<div class="ydp9d9375c1yiv2291103190moz-cite-prefix">the messages below remind me Tomkins'
"metabolic code " hypothesis. In a nutshell it says that most (?)
signaling evolves from the detection of anomalous inner states,
accumulating unwanted metabolic dead ends, and later on these very
substances become signals that circulate inside and outside to
trigger functional responses (the case of cAMP is highlighted).
So, the individual contingent becomes later on the social
determinant, and also the vice versa. </div>
<div class="ydp9d9375c1yiv2291103190moz-cite-prefix">My memory is weak, my time short.
Anyone interested may go to journal Science. <span class="ydp9d9375c1yiv2291103190YrbPuc"><span>GM
Tomkins</span><span> · </span><span>1975</span><span> </span>— </span><span>The <em>Metabolic
Code</em>: Biological symbolism and the origin of
intercellular communication is discussed.</span></div>
<div class="ydp9d9375c1yiv2291103190moz-cite-prefix"><span>I think John's works are not far
from these premises...</span></div>
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<div class="ydp9d9375c1yiv2291103190moz-cite-prefix"><span>Greetings to all,</span></div>
<div class="ydp9d9375c1yiv2291103190moz-cite-prefix"><span>--Pedro</span></div>
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<div id="ydp9d9375c1yiv2291103190yqtfd72019" class="ydp9d9375c1yiv2291103190yqt9090256572"><div class="ydp9d9375c1yiv2291103190moz-cite-prefix">El 20/11/2025 a las 12:54, JOHN TORDAY
escribió:<br clear="none">
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<div>Any way to test whether the AI 'parts' are representative
of a 'whole'? or just space-filling stuff....</div>
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<div>John Torday</div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="ydp9d9375c1yiv2291103190gmail_attr">On Thu, Nov 20, 2025 at
4:29 AM Mark Johnson <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:johnsonmwj1@gmail.com" class="ydp9d9375c1yiv2291103190moz-txt-link-freetext" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">johnsonmwj1@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
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<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;" class="ydp9d9375c1yiv2291103190gmail_quote">
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<div>Dear all,</div>
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<div>A group of colleagues and I have been working on
diagnostic AI for some years using a comparison
technique. A few of us just published this paper on the
inter-relationship between management decision making, the
learning of decision-making and technology: <a shape="rect" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0148296325006654__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!WPhKwNIaSyPehSx-1rv1IXkLmAKWvfhjcSoF8ycbMGpQLKjNmUeRHbMR7LBpcGoUSKLBgkQAwLAnZMgvKms0B4w$" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Developing
judgement for business: an AI-based model of independent
management learning - ScienceDirect</a></div>
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<div>The role of information in this is obviously crucial -
as is the criticism of AI that it is an unreliable
assistant. How might AI tell us when it's not sure about
things? While Shannon's H is a kind of contingency signal,
it is curious how with AI this aspect of mathematical
information theory is easily forgotten! However, there
does seem to be an intersection between the way
information is conceived and effective social
decision-making where:</div>
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<div>a. information is framed in terms of varying degrees of
contingency</div>
<div>b. good decision concerns the effective allocation of
scarce human expertise to maximise organisational
effectiveness</div>
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<div>In essence, the greater the contingency in a judgement,
the greater the need to allocate human resource to debate
choices; the less the contingency, the less the need for
humans in decision processes. </div>
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<div>The fundamental message is a management cybernetic one
(i.e. Stafford Beer) - it is not what the technology
itself does, it is how we organise ourselves with it that
matters.</div>
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<div>The technique in the paper illustrates a way in which
degrees of contingency in decision-making can be
identified by the technology. It is, we would suggest,
this signal which we need from our technology, not an
"answer" to questions. So the pursuit of "answer engines"
(as Google and others are discussing) is barking up the
wrong tree. </div>
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<div>A deeper question is whether some kind of "contingency
signal" lies at the heart of biological information
itself. This would have resonance with deeper cybernetic
ideas about contingency (Luhmann, Leydesdorff, Shannon,
etc) and cellular organisation (Torday and colleagues,
Levin, etc) - whether a biological "contingency signal" is
produced in the gap between the internal biological
selection process of a cell (referencing its evolutionary
history acquired through symbiogenesis, for example) and
external selection pressure. </div>
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<div>Any thoughts?</div>
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<div>Best wishes,</div>
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<div>Mark</div>
<span class="ydp9d9375c1yiv2291103190gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br clear="none">
<div dir="ltr" class="ydp9d9375c1yiv2291103190gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">Dr. Mark William Johnson<br clear="none">
<div dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);">Faculty of
Biology, Medicine and Health</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);">University of
Manchester</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);"><br clear="none">
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<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);">Department of Eye and
Vision Science (honorary)</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);">University of Liverpool</div>
Phone: 07786 064505<br clear="none">
Email: <a shape="rect" href="mailto:johnsonmwj1@gmail.com" class="ydp9d9375c1yiv2291103190moz-txt-link-freetext" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">johnsonmwj1@gmail.com</a><br clear="none">
Blog: <a shape="rect" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://dailyimprovisation.blogspot.com__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!WPhKwNIaSyPehSx-1rv1IXkLmAKWvfhjcSoF8ycbMGpQLKjNmUeRHbMR7LBpcGoUSKLBgkQAwLAnZMgv378sKxM$" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://dailyimprovisation.blogspot.com</a></div>
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