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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Joseph & FIS Colleagues, </div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">No problem that we wait a little to see
whether the presenters send their concluding comments, and
alternatively other parties may send their own ones, but without
engaging in discussion with each other, better. We have done so in
other occasions. By the way, about posting in the list, when many
other addresses are included as cc. (or when fis is not the main
address) the server may reject the message. Take note, please. <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">To Krassimir, Eric, and Paul, I would
say that we have pragmatically overcome our individual limitations
regarding social knowledge accumulation along the different epochs
i n many different ways. The 'overwhelming' complaint of the
cognoscenti is as old as the Sumerians and Egyptian priests,
Alexandria scholars, Monastic scribes, Enlightenment primadonna,
etc. etc. Watching the different, changing social 'solutions' to
the individual limitations is quite intriguing, not easy to see
particualrly in science.... Well, now that there is a new 'ghost'
distilled out from the machine: what is going to happen to our
troubled 'human' knowledge system, for the good or for the bad?
The genius is out of the bottle... Already, cornering the
handwriting by the printing press was deeply lamented by notable
scriptoria monks, the nobility of the connection between mind-hand
getting lost. The printing press was just the beginning of the
modern world--and AI the final??? <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">We badly need grand visions on these
turbulent times.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Best --Pedro <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">El 10/06/2025 a las 10:52,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a> escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:354296828.820035.1749545576650@email.bluewin.ch">
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<div> <span style="font-size: 13pt;">Dear All,</span> </div>
<div class="default-style"> </div>
<div class="default-style"> <span style="font-size: 13pt;">I am
surprised and not a little disappointed with this note as the
conclusion of the session. I would have focused on the
interactive exchange on topics independent of AI that
developed involving, especially, Gordana, Bill, Loe, Thomas,
John and your humble servant.</span> </div>
<div class="default-style"> </div>
<div class="default-style"> <span style="font-size: 13pt;">There
is a place in this discussion group for the statistical
approach of Krassimir, and there is also place for the "store
of ideas", to use Eric's term, that have <em>already</em>
just been offered. </span> </div>
<div class="default-style"> </div>
<div class="default-style"> <span style="font-size: 13pt;">Breaking
certainly with the usual practice, I for one would welcome the
opportunity of a <em>repetition </em>in part<em> </em>of the
session just finished, giving everyone the chance to say what
emerged of real importance to him/her. </span> </div>
<div class="default-style"> </div>
<div class="default-style"> <span style="font-size: 13pt;">The
gravitational field, yes, setting the boundaries for the
operation of information processes involving people as well as
machines. I would say we are done with the "it" of the
machine; are we done with "trust"?</span> </div>
<div class="default-style"> </div>
<div class="default-style"> <span style="font-size: 13pt;">Back
to you, Pedro, with due respect,</span> </div>
<div class="default-style"> <span style="font-size: 13pt;">Joe</span>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div> Le 10.06.2025 08:51 CEST, OARF
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:eric.werner@oarf.org"><eric.werner@oarf.org></a> a écrit : </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
Dear All,
<div> </div>
<div> I too sometimes feel overwhelmed not only by the
indiscriminate word salad produced by Ai, but even by the
intense conversations we have on FIS. I feel a bit guilty not
having answered Louis’ for example and all the rest of your
excellent comments. </div>
<div> </div>
<div> But was busy working on an AI related paper and debugging
my program with the help of AI. But to debug without the
cloud, using AI locally on my laptop, I first had to set up a
local LLM that had expertise in C++, OpenGL and Windows
interface programming. That setup probably took more time than
if I would just have debugged the program myself without AI.
</div>
<div> And yet, I have to admit it was fun to do, and I learned
more about how these AI models operate. </div>
<div> </div>
<div> I long for the days of no computers when I sat at my
kitchen table (not a desk) and wrote long hand, with my ink
filled pen, in my hardcover journal. I wrote so slowly that
at the end of writing the sentence I realized my idea was not
quite right. And, so it went, idea to idea, but at my own slow
pace. Yet, even that, slow meandering pace, produced so much
that I still have not had time to publish 95% of it. For my
first publication I had our secretary type out a few
photocopied pages of it. Now, I am thinking of using AI to OCR
the rest, but thereby adding to the problem of too much to
read. But at least human generated. </div>
<div> </div>
<div> Sorry more text to read, but I am quite sure many of you
have a large store of written ideas that are yet to be offered
to the public. </div>
<div> </div>
<div> Eric </div>
<div> </div>
<div> P.S. I hereby affirm that the contents of this email was
conscious human generated and not the product of a ‘thinking’
unconscious machine. </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> <br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature">
<div dir="ltr"> eSent from my iPad </div>
<div dir="ltr"> <br>
<blockquote type="cite"> On Jun 9, 2025, at 10:14 PM,
Krassimir Markov <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:itheaiss@gmail.com"><itheaiss@gmail.com></a> wrote: <br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"> <span style="font-size: large;">Dear
Pedro and FIS Colleagues,<br>
First of all, I would like to apologize for my
occasional participation, but I am very busy with
organizational work, which I hope will decrease by the
end of the month.<br>
Regarding the cited article (Rebooting the Attention
Machine)</span><span style="font-size: large;">, I
think it would be interesting to recall an aphorism of
the Bulgarian academician Azaria </span>Polikarov<span
style="font-size: large;">. He said:</span> <br>
<span style="font-size: large;"><br>
"The greatest invention of mankind is the radio with
an off button!"<br>
<br>
In an article that I published about ten years ago
(2013), I noted the following:<br>
<br>
In 1991, David A. Pendlebury of the Philadelphia-based
Institute for Scientific Information had published the
startling conclusion that<br>
55% of the papers published in journals covered by
ISI's citation database did not receive a single
citation in the 5 years after they were published
[Hamilton, 1991].<br>
In his further publication, Pendlebury gave more
concrete data. He had written [Pendlebury, 1991]:<br>
"The figures -- 47.4% un-cited for the sciences, 74.7%
for the social sciences, and 98.0% for the arts and
humanities -- are indeed correct.<br>
These statistics represent every type of article that
appears in journals indexed by the Institute for
Scientific Information (ISI) in its Science Citation
Index, Social Sciences Citation Index, and Arts &
Humanities Citation Index. The journals' ISI indexes
contain not only articles, reviews, and notes, but
also meeting abstracts, editorials, obituaries,
letters like this one, and other marginalia, which one
might expect to be largely un-cited.<br>
In 1984, about 27% of the items indexed in the Science
Citation Index were such marginalia. The comparable
figures for the social sciences and arts and
humanities were 48% and 69%, respectively.<br>
If one analyzes the data more narrowly and examines
the extent of un-cited articles alone, the figures
shrink, some more than others: 22.4% of 1984 science
articles remained un-cited by the end of 1988, as did
48.0% of social sciences articles and 93.1% of
articles in arts and humanities journals.<br>
<br>
Now the situation is probably even more disappointing.<br>
<br>
I will stop here. but we could discuss these problems
more broadly in the fall.<br>
<br>
With respect,<br>
Krassimir</span> </div>
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