<html><head></head><body><div class="ydp9c15967eyahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:24px;"><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote style="padding-left:10px;border-left:2px solid #0f69ff;margin-left:20px">biology might
productively<br>
inform physics and mathematics, </blockquote><div><br></div></div><div></div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">I agree.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span>with warmth and oomph--howard bloom</span><br></div><div><br></div>
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On Wednesday, May 14, 2025 at 05:01:49 PM EDT, JOHN TORDAY <jtorday@ucla.edu> wrote:
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<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><div id="ydpfba74158yiv3964730249"><div dir="ltr"><div><font size="4">Dear Pedro, Bill and fis,with all due respect, I have attached my replies to Bill's </font><b><font size="4">Information in a cellular framework – abstract for discussion</font></b></div><b><font size="4">William B. Miller, Jr.</font></b><div><font size="4"><b><br></b></font><div><div dir="ltr" class="ydpfba74158yiv3964730249gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>John S. Torday</div><div dir="ltr">Professor of Pediatrics<div>Obstetrics and Gynecology</div><div>Evolutionary Medicine</div><div>UCLA</div><div><br></div><div><i>Fellow, The European Academy of Science and Arts</i></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><br><div class="ydpfba74158yiv3964730249gmail_quote ydpfba74158yiv3964730249gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="ydpfba74158yiv3964730249gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <strong class="ydpfba74158yiv3964730249gmail_sendername">JOHN TORDAY</strong> <span><<a href="mailto:jtorday@ucla.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">jtorday@ucla.edu</a>></span><br>Date: Wed, May 14, 2025 at 4:56 PM<br>Subject: Re: [Fis] Bill Miller's contribution<br>To: Pedro C. Marijuán <<a href="mailto:pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com</a>><br></div><br><br><div dir="ltr"><div>Dear Pedro and Bill and fis, I have attached my responses to Bill's "Information in a Cellular Framework"..... </div><div><br></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="ydpfba74158yiv3964730249gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>John S. Torday</div><div dir="ltr">Professor of Pediatrics<div>Obstetrics and Gynecology</div><div>Evolutionary Medicine</div><div>UCLA</div><div><br></div><div><i>Fellow, The European Academy of Science and Arts</i></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="ydpfba74158yiv3964730249gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="ydpfba74158yiv3964730249gmail_attr">On Wed, May 14, 2025 at 3:45 PM Pedro C. Marijuán <<a href="mailto:pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;" class="ydpfba74158yiv3964730249gmail_quote"><u></u>
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Given the archive difficulties with attached files, systematically
scrubbed by the server, I am posting Bill's text as a regular
message (today I finally could do that!).<br>
It is an angle pretty different from the mechanism/non mechanism
one... Regards --Pedro<br>
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<p><b><font size="4">Information in a cellular framework – abstract
for discussion<br>
William B. Miller, Jr.</font></b><br>
</p>
<p>A long-standing presumption among many physicists and
mathematicians is<br>
that biology is a descriptive endeavor and any deep understanding
of the<br>
living frame must issue from their more rigorous disciplines.
Nonetheless,<br>
neither physics nor mathematics has explained the non-equilibrium
living<br>
state in which intelligent self-referential cells deploy
problem-solving<br>
competencies to sustain themselves across living scales.
Consequently, some<br>
scientists argue that the reverse may be correct: biology might
productively<br>
inform physics and mathematics, offering insights into how natural
laws<br>
might extend beyond known physical and mathematical principles.<br>
In the same spirit, examining the specific attributes of
biological<br>
information processing and living information management as
specifically<br>
exemplified by cells might provide a productive further thrust to
the<br>
fundamental action-logic of those theoretical information systems
formulated<br>
by visionary information theorists.</p>
<p>To stimulate that initiative, it is proposed that information
theorists might<br>
direct their attention to the specific informational
characteristics of intelligent,<br>
measuring cells, which represent the basal strata of our living
planetary<br>
system.<br>
</p>
<p>Several specific attributes of biological information have been<br>
empirically verified at the cellular level, thereby defining the
informational<br>
conditions of our living system:</p>
<p>--All cells are cognitive, problem-solving agents.</p>
<p>--Their living context is the ambiguity of information.</p>
<p>--The uncertain validity of environmental stimuli governs the
cellular<br>
reception, analysis, and deployment of all cellular resources.</p>
<p>--Imperfect information requires cells to internally measure
their<br>
received information.</p>
<p>--Accordingly, all cellular information is a product of
infoautopoiesis,<br>
entailing that all the information that any cell has about its
external<br>
environment is exclusive, self-referential, and self-produced.</p>
<p>--Cellular infoautopiesis drives an obligatory and little
appreciated<br>
derivative: each cell, and then we as cellular beings, create our<br>
exclusive self-referential representations of reality and act upon
that<br>
self-generated purview.</p>
<p>--Obliged informational uncertainties stimulate the collective
cellular<br>
analysis of self-generated cellular information, driving
ubiquitous<br>
planetary multicellularity as a cellular expression of the
familiar<br>
'wisdom of crowds'.</p>
<p>--Cellular information processing directs toward narrowing
distinctions<br>
on the adjacents to diminish their obligatory uncertainty gap,
yielding<br>
the effective minimization of surprisal in conformity with the
Free<br>
Energy Principle.</p>
<p>--Every cell does work to sustain its self-directed state of
homeorhetic<br>
preferential flux.</p>
<p>--Narrowing the distinctions on the adjacents as the effective<br>
minimization of surprisal enables cellular predictions and<br>
anticipations.</p>
<p>--Self-referential cellular states of homeorhetic preference
drive<br>
multicellular eukaryotic macroorganic behaviors and emotions.<br>
</p>
<p><b>SOME BASIC QUESTIONS (for the discussion)</b></p>
<p>Information in the living frame has been commonly defined
according to<br>
Bateson’s familiar definition as a 'difference that makes a
difference over<br>
time.' How might that definition explain internal self reference
that governs<br>
our lives, enabling living information management? Might other
definitions<br>
serve better?<br>
</p>
<p>How can previously formulated information theories illuminate the
cellular<br>
living process within its obligatory context of informational
ambiguity?<br>
How do current information theories explain the presence of
inference,<br>
prediction, and anticipation.<br>
</p>
<p>Why do these informational cues, which must first manifest at the
level of<br>
cells as exclusive states of self-referential homeorhetic
preference, exert in<br>
multicellularity as nuanced multicellular behaviors and emotions?<br>
Recent research confirms the remarkable competencies of diverse<br>
intelligences across living scales. How might applying information
systems<br>
theory contribute to our debate about any categorical distinctions
between the<br>
living frame and the abiotic realm? If a fluid continuum is
asserted, how<br>
might that be rationalized?<br>
</p>
<p>Is our understanding of biological systems improved by asserting
an<br>
immaterial Platonic informational platform permitting cells to
interrogate a<br>
constrained portion of universal informational space-time (? phase
space<br>
partition) as part of a universal informational fabric?<br>
</p>
<p>Given the extraordinary competencies of current AI systems and
projected<br>
future abilities, how might information theory inform constructive
responses<br>
to inevitable social, economic, and cultural pressures?</p>
What should govern our ethical responses to the still-developing
organic constructs<br>
which will include synthetic combinations of digital competencies
and living cells?<br>
If 'consciousness' is determined to be a litmus of our ethical
stance toward<br>
other living entities, what practical informational threshold
exists, if any?<br>
<p>------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
</p>
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</div>_______________________________________________<br>Fis mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br>----------<br>INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL<br><br>Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.<br>Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: <a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a><br>Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.<br><a href="http://listas.unizar.es" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es</a><br>----------<div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>__________________________</div><div>Howard Bloom</div><div>The Howard Bloom Institute</div><div><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://howardbloom.institute__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QU2hvSWMl_nnLTIrNpZp6n6dHOLE92SNmSEj-ZKLi7zcfKTQrBljHcriAZv8aHQZG3nPv11wwk78fizAlA$">https://howardbloom.institute</a></div><div>Author of: The Case of the Sexual Cosmos: Everything You Know About Nature is Wrong, coming March, 2025 ("A massive achievement, WOW!" Richard Foreman, MacArthur Genius Award Winner, Officer of the Order of Arts & Letters, France)</div><div>Previous books: The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History ("mesmerizing"-The Washington Post), </div><div>Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the 21st Century ("reassuring and sobering"-The New Yorker),</div><div>The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of Capitalism ("A tremendously enjoyable book." James Fallows, National Correspondent, The Atlantic), </div><div>The God Problem: How A Godless Cosmos Creates ("Bloom's argument will rock your world." Barbara Ehrenreich),</div><div>How I Accidentally Started the Sixties (“Wow! Whew! Wild! Wonderful!” Timothy Leary),</div><div>The Mohammed Code (“A terrifying book…the best book I’ve read on Islam.” David Swindle, PJ Media),</div><div>Einstein, Michael Jackson & Me: a Search for Soul in the Power Pits of Rock & Roll ("Amazing. The writing is revelatory." Freddy DeMann, manager of Michael Jackson and Madonna), Best Book of 2020, New York Weekly Times </div><div><br></div><div>A Quartz Magazine Pro</div><div>Professor of Practice, Kepler Space University </div><div>Co-founder, The Asian Space Technology Summit</div><div>Former Visiting Scholar, Graduate Psychology Department, New York University, Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute; </div><div>Founder: International Paleopsychology Project. Founder, Space Development Steering Committee. Member Of Board Of Governors, National Space Society. Founding Board Member: Epic of Evolution Society. Founding Board Member, The Darwin Project.</div><div><br></div><div>BRIC-TV's 66-minute film, The Grand Unified Theory of Howard Bloom, <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atYmiEZ6YDU__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QU2hvSWMl_nnLTIrNpZp6n6dHOLE92SNmSEj-ZKLi7zcfKTQrBljHcriAZv8aHQZG3nPv11wwk7T-ZX1iQ$">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atYmiEZ6YDU</a></div><div>Best Picture, Science Design Film Festival. Best Documentary Feature, Not Film Festival, Italy. Available on Apple TV, Amazon, Google Play, Microsoft, Vimeo, Vudu, and Fandango.</div><div><br></div></div><br></div>
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