<div dir="ltr"><table cellpadding="0" class="gmail-cf gmail-An" id="gmail-undefined" style="width:924px;table-layout:fixed;border-spacing:0px"><tbody><tr><td class="gmail-Ap" style="width:924px;vertical-align:top;height:100px"><div id="gmail-:w5" class="gmail-Ar gmail-Au" style="border-radius:1px;box-sizing:border-box;padding:0px 0px 16px;border:0px;margin:0px"><div class="gmail-aO7" style="position: relative;"></div></div></td></tr></tbody></table>Caro jason.<div>il mio concetto di tras-in-forn-azione o tras-de-form-azione, risalente alla mia <b><i>Economia dei beni culturali</i></b></div><div>o del <b><i>Patrimonio architettonico-ambientale </i></b>del 1983, è generale o universale e, in qualunque "campo di </div><div>forma", si definisce: processo di assunzione o perdita di <b>forma del valore</b> o del <b>valore della forma.</b></div><div><b>Beninteso, senza alcuna presunzione.</b></div><div><b>Saluti cordiali.</b></div><div><b>Francesco</b></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;text-align:justify;text-indent:14.2pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(31,31,31);background:rgb(248,249,250)"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;text-align:justify;text-indent:14.2pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(31,31,31);background:rgb(248,249,250)">Dear Jason. My concept of trans-in-forn-ation
or trans-de-form-ation, dating back to my Economics of Cultural </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;text-align:justify;text-indent:14.2pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(31,31,31);background:rgb(248,249,250)">Heritage or
Architectural-Environmental Heritage of 1983, is general or universal and, in
any "field of form", </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;text-align:justify;text-indent:14.2pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(31,31,31);background:rgb(248,249,250)">is defined as: process of assumption or loss of
form of the value or of the value of the form. Of course, without </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;text-align:justify;text-indent:14.2pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(31,31,31);background:rgb(248,249,250)">any
presumption. Kind regards.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;text-align:justify;text-indent:14.2pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(31,31,31);background:rgb(248,249,250)">Francesco.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;text-align:justify;text-indent:14.2pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></p></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno mer 26 mar 2025 alle ore 01:59 Jason Hu <<a href="mailto:jasonthegoodman@gmail.com" target="_blank">jasonthegoodman@gmail.com</a>> ha scritto:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">Hi Daniel and Howard,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">I can be "informed," but I don't have to interpret that... e.g., I heard my dog is barking... so be it, I don't have to interpret what that means, but it is still a piece of information. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">Why not go back to the very root of the word "form"? A "form" is an output of our cognitive system, an "I-see" or an "Ah-ha!" Something caused me to form that "form" in my mind - "a difference that makes a difference." So I'm "informed." So information is the stuff that gets me informed... therefore we call it Information.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">Indeed the relationship of it with quantum physics and entropy are secondary. For quantum physics, it "informed" the wave function to collapse or set the fate of the cat. For entropy, a statistic measure, a status of the "informed" status reduced uncertainty. But those effects of "information", not cause. Would you agree or not?</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">Best - Jason </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 25, 2025 at 12:16 AM Daniel Boyd <<a href="mailto:daniel.boyd@live.nl" target="_blank">daniel.boyd@live.nl</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Hi Howard<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Picking up on your mail from last week, it seems that the key point is
<i>definitions</i>. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I think it’s rather ironic that the word ‘information’ is itself uninformative, since it can be used in very different ways. If two people in a discussion are using the term under a
different definition then a fruitful dialogue is unlikely. And there are many more than two options to choose from!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Certainly, there are uses of the word in which quantum physics and entropy are relevant, and such definitions appear to be the main topic of this thread.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">You and I are using the word in a very different way: that which allows living organisms to behave responsively and adaptively and thus sustain their far from equilibrium states. A definition
that lies in the conceptual vicinity of Pierce’s ‘pragmatic information’ and indeed has little or nothing to do with quantum physics or entropy. But one that necessitates more than most other definitions an acknowledgement of an immaterial aspect to reality.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">In my opinion this is an equally valid use of the word, but one which presumably requires (and deserves) its own discussion thread. Perhaps you would like to kick off?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">All the best<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Daniel<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Howard Bloom <<a href="mailto:howlbloom@aol.com" target="_blank">howlbloom@aol.com</a>>
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<b>Sent:</b> 20 March 2025 04:24<br>
<b>To:</b> Louis Kauffman <<a href="mailto:loukau@gmail.com" target="_blank">loukau@gmail.com</a>>; Stuart Kauffman <<a href="mailto:stukauffman@gmail.com" target="_blank">stukauffman@gmail.com</a>>; Sudip Patra <<a href="mailto:spatra@jgu.edu.in" target="_blank">spatra@jgu.edu.in</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Eric Werner <<a href="mailto:eric.werner@oarf.org" target="_blank">eric.werner@oarf.org</a>>; 1 <<a href="mailto:ktpeil@outlook.com" target="_blank">ktpeil@outlook.com</a>>; Peter Erdi <<a href="mailto:peter.erdi@kzoo.edu" target="_blank">peter.erdi@kzoo.edu</a>>; fis <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>>;
<a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" target="_blank">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>; Gordana Dodig Crnkovic <<a href="mailto:gordana.dodig-crnkovic@chalmers.se" target="_blank">gordana.dodig-crnkovic@chalmers.se</a>>; Daniel Boyd <<a href="mailto:daniel.boyd@live.nl" target="_blank">daniel.boyd@live.nl</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Fis] Emotional Contagion? -The Irreality of materialism<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">could i please repeat the definition of information in my book The God Problem: How a Godless Cosmos Creates:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">information is anything a receiver can interpret<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">how do we know if a receiver has interpreted? by the receiver's response. unless it's an animal or a human and keeps that response to itself.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">two things that are not useful in understanding information, in my opinion, are quantum physics and the entropy equation.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">with warmth and oomph—howard<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:18pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:rgb(38,40,42)">On Wednesday, March 19, 2025 at 10:30:07 PM EDT, Sudip Patra <</span><a href="mailto:spatra@jgu.edu.in" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue"">spatra@jgu.edu.in</span></a><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:rgb(38,40,42)">>
wrote: <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:rgb(38,40,42)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:rgb(38,40,42)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:rgb(38,40,42)">Also, as it's emerging, in quantum-like cognition literature, there are analogies and subtle differences between quantum and cognitive processes. Both
are non Boolean certainly.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:rgb(38,40,42)">But more general frameworks are required.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:rgb(38,40,42)">Regards Sudip <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:rgb(38,40,42)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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