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Dear all,<br>
Just a few short remarks and all the best and hopefully a good weekend for everyone.<br>
Best regards,<br>
Thomas<br>
<br>
<strong>Reality of possibilities far exceeds material reality</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>
There are more possibilities in most situations than there is space in the universe to contain them,</li>
</ul>
Everything that exists in reality and can be scientifically investigated exists in the three-dimensional space in which we live. To expand this space with additional dimensions is, in my view, science fiction.<br>
The earth and the moon are in three-dimensional space – as are we and our immediate surroundings. However, if we want to describe their movement in idealized terms as point particles, then of course we use 6 position and 6 momentum coordinates – a twelve-dimensional mathematical space.<br>
The set of real and independent possibilities, in other words the number of absolute quantum bits, AQIs, is finite in the cosmos at each time after the Big Bang. In the present time after the Big Bang, that is about 10^61.5 Planck times, the number of which is about 10^123. However, the number grows infinitely.<br>
Space and time are the forms of existence of the simplest quantum structures. Therefore, everything that can be examined with quantum theory is in the three dimensions of space. But of course, for the idealization of a quantum particle in Minkowski space, there is an abstract space of states that is infinite-dimensional. This mathematical idealization of infinity is physically necessary, but has nothing to do with the space of locations.<br>
The term “space” is therefore occasionally associated with completely different concepts in physics and mathematics. The state space of a quantum system has nothing to do with the space in which this system exists.<br>
>From the cosmological model of AQIs it follows that the state space of the cosmos is currently 2^(10^123)-dimensional. The cosmos is just large enough to contain as many truly distinct alternatives as there are in it according to Bekenstein.<br>
Of course there are infinitely many possibilities in this state space, but only 2^(10^123), each of which is orthogonal to all others. All others are superpositions.<br>
<ul>
<li>
Possibilities are real.</li>
<li>
Therefore, not all reality is physical or in physical space time.</li>
</ul>
A clear formulation would be, in my view: not all reality is material, but everything scientifically real is in space and time.<br>
<ul>
<li>
In quantum mechanics there are more possibilities than space in the universe to contain them.</li>
</ul>
As mentioned, I see this differently.<br>
<ul>
<li>
Therefore, there must be one or more extra dimensions to contain them.</li>
</ul>
Extra dimensions are important mathematics, but they have nothing to do with physical space-time.<br>
<ul>
<li>
The consciousness and cloning problem shows the consciousness must be in another dimension beyond our four-dimensional space time</li>
</ul>
As far as consciousness can be described scientifically (it is quite possible that it is thereby not fully captured), it is a phenomenon in space and time.<br>
<ul>
<li>
The soul if it exists may be partly in our four dimensional space-time and partly in other dimensions of reality.</li>
</ul>
The term “dimension” should be understood here in the figurative, spiritual sense as something transcendental that does not fall within the scope of the natural sciences.<br>
<ul>
<li>
Materialism is just one aspect of reality.</li>
<li>
Reality is not just material it also contains the immaterial which by far exceeds the material.</li>
</ul>
I see it that way too.<br>
<br>
<strong>Reality of possibilities far exceeds material reality</strong><br>
<ul>
<li>
There are more possibilities in most situations than there is space in the universe to contain them,</li>
</ul>
Alles was in der Realität existiert, die naturwissenschaftlich untersucht werden kann, existiert in dem dreidimensionalen Raum, in welchem wir leben. Diesen Raum mit zusätzlichen Dimensionen zu erweitern, ist aus meiner Sicht Science-Fiction.<br>
Die Erde und der Mond befinden sich in dem dreidimensionalen Raum – so wie wir und unsere nähere Umgebung. Wenn wir aber deren Bewegung idealisiert als Punktteilchen beschreiben wollen, so verwenden wir natürlich 6 Orts- und 6 Impulskoordinaten - - einen zwölfdimensionalen mathematischen Raum.<br>
Die Menge der realen und voneinander unabhängigen Möglichkeiten, mit anderen Worten die Anzahl der absoluten Quantenbits, AQIs, ist im Kosmos zu jeder Zeit nach dem Urknall endlich. In der jetzigen Zeit nach dem Urknall, das sind etwa 10^61,5 Planck-Zeiten, deren Anzahl etwa 10^123. Die Anzahl wächst aber unbegrenzt.<br>
Raum und Zeit sind die Existenzformen der einfachsten Quantenstrukturen. Daher ist alles, was mit Quantentheorie untersucht werden kann, in den drei Dimensionen des Raumes. Aber natürlich gibt es für die Idealisierung eines Quantenteilchens im Minkowski Raum einen abstrakten Raum von Zuständen, der unendlichdimensional ist. Diese mathematische Idealisierung einer Unendlichkeit ist physikalisch notwendig, hat allerdings mit dem Ortsraum nichts zu tun.<br>
Der Begriff „Raum“ wird also in Physik und Mathematik gelegentlich mit völlig verschiedenen Vorstellungen verbunden. Der Zustandsraum eines Quantensystems hat mit dem Raum, in dem dieses System existiert, nichts zu tun.<br>
Aus dem kosmologischen Modell der AQIs folgt, dass der Zustandsraum des Kosmos gegenwärtig 2^(10^123)-dimensional ist. Der Kosmos ist gerade so groß, dass nach Bekenstein so viele zueinander tatsächlich verschiedene Alternativen in ihm Platz haben.<br>
Natürlich gibt es in diesem Zustandsraum unendlich viele Möglichkeiten, aber nur 2^(10^123), von denen jede zu allen anderen orthogonal ist. Alle anderen sind Superpositionen.<br>
<ul>
<li>
Possibilities are real.</li>
<li>
Therefore, not all reality is physical or in physical space time.</li>
</ul>
Eine klare Formulierung würde aus meiner Sicht lauten: nicht alle Realität ist materiell, trotzdem ist alles naturwissenschaftlich Reale in Raum und Zeit<br>
<ul>
<li>
In quantum mechanics there are more possibilities than space in the universe to contain them.</li>
</ul>
Das sehe ich wie erwähnt anders.<br>
<ul>
<li>
Therefore, there must be one or more extra dimensions to contain them.</li>
</ul>
Extra-Dimensionen sind wichtige Mathematik, haben aber mit der physikalischen Raumzeit nichts zu tun.<br>
<ul>
<li>
The consciousness and cloning problem shows the consciousness must be in another dimension beyond our four dimensional space time</li>
</ul>
Soweit Bewusstsein naturwissenschaftlich beschrieben werden kann (es ist ja gut möglich, dass es damit nicht völlig erfasst ist) ist es ein Phänomen in Raum und Zeit.<br>
<ul>
<li>
The soul if it exists may be partly in our four dimensional space-time and partly in other dimensions of reality.</li>
</ul>
Der Begriff die Dimension sollte hierbei im übertragenen geisteswissenschaftlichen Sinne verstanden werden als etwas Transzendentes, was nicht in den Bereich der Naturwissenschaften fällt.<br>
<ul>
<li>
Materialism is just one aspect of reality.</li>
<li>
Reality is not just material it also contains the immaterial which by far exceeds the material.</li>
</ul>
Das sehe ich auch so.<br>
<br>
<br>
<p>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Quoting Louis Kauffman <<a href="mailto:loukau@gmail.com">loukau@gmail.com</a>>:</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid blue;margin-left:2px;padding-left:12px;" type="cite">
<div>
Dear Folks,</div>
A good specific example of Eric’s phenomenon of
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<blockquote type="cite">
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<ul>
<li>
There are more possibilities in most situations than there is space in the universe to contain them,</li>
<li>
Possibilities are real.</li>
</ul>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
is the well-known “Tower of Hanoi Puzzle” </div>
<div>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Hanoi__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TVZqTJ-viirX14HM07-8ioqgsILpFP5YeWMctmgtmVWKTFLw2Zr5Q3nh8yMd8Pygo-Z7E4u0J0GsnmVc%24">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Hanoi</a></div>
<div>
In which there are three vertical rods attached to a base, and a number of disks of different diameters with holes at their centers so they can be threaded onto the rods. The puzzle begins with the disks arranged (always smaller disk on top of larger disk) on one of the rods. A move in the game is to take the top disk from one rod and place it on another rod with the caveat that the disk must be placed either on a larger disk or on the base of the rods. The object of the game is to move all the disks from the first rod to the third rod, following these rules. It is a fact that with n disks, 2^{n} -1 moves are required to complete this task. Each move creates one of the possibilities of stacking the disks (smaller above larger) on the rods. It would not be hard to make such a puzzle with 100 disks, but the number of moves and the number of states exceeds the direct materiality of our particle based universe. Nevertheless the possible ways to stack the disks on the rods are all equally real in the space of possibilities. Unless the physical universe is vastly larger than we know it to be it is not possible to make 2^{100}-1 copies of the puzzle and thereby exhibit its full solution. And yet this solution exists (in the space of possibilities).</div>
<div>
</div>
<div>
Since I am a convinced mathematician I could point to infinities, but I have only here pointed to large finite structures that transcend our physical universe.</div>
<div>
</div>
<div>
Since I am a mathematician, I do point out to you that nowhere in physical reality is the number two. There are many instances of pairs, but the number itself is a concept and is not a physical entity. Of course you will say, but concepts occur in brains and brains are physical. Sorry, the concept of two that occurs in a brain is a instance of that concept. The concept is independent of its instances and is not restricted to any one brain. If that were not the case, then we could never understand one another.</div>
<div>
</div>
<div>
And you will say, but Herr Tegmark says that mathematics and physical reality are identical.</div>
<div>
And I say, balderdash.</div>
<div>
<img apple-inline="yes" height="86" id="88ED6A20-B45A-490B-B21A-4DEB7FCE01B8" imp_related_attr="src;1" src="https://webmail.uni-frankfurt.de/imp/view.php?actionID=compose_attach_preview&composeCache=cMWfGlld8YZhaWEMHxSmXBt&id=1" width="625"></div>
<div>
Best,</div>
<div>
Lou</div>
<div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
On Mar 12, 2025, at 5:57 AM, Eric Werner <<a href="mailto:eric.werner@oarf.org">eric.werner@oarf.org</a>> wrote:</div>
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Dear Materialists,</div>
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<div>
<h1>
Reality of possibilities far exceeds material reality</h1>
</div>
<ul>
<li>
There are more possibilities in most situations than there is space in the universe to contain them,</li>
<li>
Possibilities are real.</li>
<li>
Therefore, not all reality is physical or in physical space time.</li>
<li>
In quantum mechanics there are more possibilities than space in the universe to contain them.</li>
<li>
Therefore, there must be one or more extra dimensions to contain them.</li>
<li>
The consciousness and cloning problem shows the consciousness must be in another dimension beyond our four dimensional space time</li>
<li>
The soul if it exists may be partly in our four dimensional space-time and partly in other dimensions of reality.</li>
<li>
Materialism is just one aspect of reality.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></li>
<li>
Reality is not just material it also contains the immaterial which by far exceeds the material.</li>
</ul>
</div>
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</p>
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At least those are my thoughts this morning on a rainy day.</div>
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</div>
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-Eric<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
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On 3/11/25 8:35 PM, Peter Erdi wrote:</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:BY5PR12MB3985E461C445B21099538463F3D12@BY5PR12MB3985.namprd12.prod.outlook.com" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" type="cite">
<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
I am supporting Gordana's arguments and suggest this well-cited paper</div>
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</div>
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<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://psu-psychology.github.io/psy-511-scan-fdns-2018/lectures/pdf/The_neural_bases_of_emotion_re.pdf__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!X8l0cGXYnCDoWwpQdAKdeXofWqb9cy_mWyKiqDJK2ExjYcnj70EhtVRKY6IcHZLG6A96uAXbqawoFIm68LZD_HH9%24" id="LPlnk787643" moz-do-not-send="true">https://psu-psychology.github.io/psy-511-scan-fdns-2018/lectures/pdf/The_neural_bases_of_emotion_re.pdf</a></div>
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</div>
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All the best,</div>
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Peter</div>
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<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><b>From:</b> Fis<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es"><fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>on behalf of Gordana Dodig Crnkovic<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gordana.dodig-crnkovic@chalmers.se"><gordana.dodig-crnkovic@chalmers.se></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 11, 2025 1:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Eric Werner<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:eric.werner@oarf.org"><eric.werner@oarf.org></a>; Katherine Peil<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ktpeil@outlook.com"><ktpeil@outlook.com></a>; Howard Bloom<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:howlbloom@aol.com"><howlbloom@aol.com></a>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] Emotional Contagion?</span>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'>Dear Eric, Kate, Howard, and All,</span><br>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'>Being a physicist, and reading recent discussions, I would like to argue that there is no such thing as immaterial emotions.</span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'>At the core, emotions are material phenomena.</span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'>Likewise,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>relations</i> are fundamentally material. There is no information without physical implementation, as Landauer famously argued.</span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'>Below are my five arguments on embodyment of emotional contagion.</span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'> </span></p>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'><b>1. Emotional Contagion is a Biological Process</b></span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'>Emotional contagion occurs through bodily interactions—facial expressions, gestures, tone of voice, posture, and even subtle physiological signals (heart rate, breathing patterns). When one person smiles, it activates mirror neurons in the observer’s brain, prompting similar facial muscles to contract, causing measurable physical changes and subsequent shifts in emotional state.</span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'><b>2. Emotional Contagion is Chemically Mediated</b></span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'>Emotional states are directly connected to biochemical substances like oxytocin, cortisol, dopamine, and serotonin. When emotional contagion happens, it does so through these material biochemical mediators.</span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'><b>3. Emotional Contagion Based on Embodiment of Emotion</b></span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'>Emotions are not "floating" entities—they are communicated via bodily presence. The presence of a physical body expressing emotion is essential for contagion. Without physical embodiment (special facial expressions, sound, rhythm, smell, touch, posture, movements), emotional contagion does not occur. Emotions transmitted through screens (video calls) are weaker compared to face-to-face interactions precisely because physical embodiment.</span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'><b>4. Manipulability of Emotional Contagion</b></span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'>Emotional contagion can be modified or dampened pharmacologically (e.g., through anxiety-reducing drugs). If emotions were immaterial, medications wouldn't alter emotional responses. Beta-blockers reduce physical symptoms of anxiety (heartbeat, shaking), weakening emotional contagion (e.g., stage fright contagion). Antidepressants directly alter emotional contagion by stabilizing neurotransmitters.</span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'><b>5. Neuroscientific Evidence of Embodied Resonance</b></span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'>Neuroimaging clearly demonstrates activation of specific physical brain areas (mirror neuron systems, limbic system, amygdala) during emotional reactions. This direct neural activity is material. Seeing someone in pain activates similar pain circuits in the observer's brain—physically embodying the emotion in neural tissue.</span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'><b> </b></span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'><b>How this counters the immaterial perspective?</b></span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'>Those who argue emotions are "immaterial" claim emotions are disconnected from the body. However, emotional contagion’s dependence on observable, biological, chemical, and neurological mechanisms refute this clearly. If emotions were immaterial, contagion wouldn’t require physical presence with related physiological processes involving chemical, or neuronal pathways.</span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'> </span></p>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'>All the best,</span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'>Gordana</span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'> </span></p>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'>PS</span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'>My arguments are the result of a long discussion with GPT-4.5, which produced 20 pages of text. These were the prompts I used:</span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'>Can you please explain emotional contagion to me?</span></li>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'>Do you see a connection to the resonance phenomena in physics?*</span></li>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'>What are the main differences between physical resonance and emotional contagion?<br>
(At this point, GPT-4.5 began to explain the view that emotions, like consciousness, are subjective and therefore immaterial, while physical resonance is a material phenomenon. I argued that it confused "subjective" with "immaterial." Subjective experience is necessarily embodied and thus has a material substrate. GPT-4.5 accepted my arguments.)</span></li>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'>Can you summarize this discussion?</span></li>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'>Finally, I edited the summary, shortening it.</span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'>I wrote this mail and asked GPT-4.5 to check my English.</span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'>What was my contribution?<br>
A physicist's view on emotional contagion.</span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'> </span></p>
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<span style='font-family: "Avenir Book"; font-size: 11pt;'>* Resonance occurs when an external force or<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>driving frequency matches the natural frequency of a system</i>, causing the system to oscillate with greatly increased amplitude.</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b>From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Fis<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es"><fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>on behalf of Eric Werner<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:eric.werner@oarf.org"><eric.werner@oarf.org></a><br>
<b>Organisation:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://oarf.org/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TVZqTJ-viirX14HM07-8ioqgsILpFP5YeWMctmgtmVWKTFLw2Zr5Q3nh8yMd8Pygo-Z7E4u0J21mAaQN%24">OARF.org</a><br>
<b>Date:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Tuesday, 11 March 2025 at 16:24<br>
<b>To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Howard Bloom<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:howlbloom@aol.com"><howlbloom@aol.com></a>,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">"fis@listas.unizar.es"</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a>, Katherine Peil<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ktpeil@outlook.com"><ktpeil@outlook.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: [Fis] Emotional Contagion?</span></div>
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Dear Kate, Howard and All,</div>
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I have had highs in concerts and deep experiences with the Aborigines in the heart of Australia. These experiences seem to have little to do with each other. </div>
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The insight given to me by my experience in Australia evoked the thought "They are crazy over there". Where "over there" was European and American industrialized societies, their wrong path and lack of genuine meaning. </div>
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The insight given to me while blowing up balloons backstage at a Rolling Stones concert was, well, seeing Mick Jagger from the back while he elicited the highs in his frontal audience. (My girlfriend and I didn't have tickets and tried to get in and lucked out being asked if we wanted to help backstage.) So I, the Ph.D. -logician-philosopher-computer AI scientist-developmental biologist-cancer theorist-(back at you Howard<span style='font-family: "Apple Color Emoji";'>😉</span>), worked for a time for Mick Jagger! </div>
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What is the point?: I learned more from my interaction with a 50,000 year old mind in Australia than from all the science and even Mick Jagger! It was emotion but it was more. Certainly not material.</div>
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As for the Beethoven sequence (of creating, encoding, interpreting and executing the encoding, hearing the execution, encoding and experiencing}, has interesting relations to embryonic development. Such transformations are at the heart of development and communication.</div>
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-Eric</div>
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On 3/11/25 5:48 AM, Howard Bloom wrote:</div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 18pt;">kate, your question about emotional contagion and what we can call "the cloud effect" is a good one.</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 18pt;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 18pt;">about this statement, with which i deeply agree:</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 18pt;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Avenir, sans-serif; font-size: 18pt;">science is remiss if it fails to interrogate the nature and power of “faith”, given our embodied capacities for anomalous or “spiritual" experiences</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 18pt;">i'm an atheist. when science first grabbed hold of my soul when i was ten years old, its aspiration to me seemed to be omniscience.</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 18pt;">spiritual experiences are real. they may not be manifestations of god, especially to folks like me to whom there is no god. so what the hell are they? where do they come from? how did they evolve? what do they mean? what do they tell us about the nature of the cosmos that has birthed them?</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 18pt;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 18pt;">in my fieldwork in mass behavior, working with people like michael jackson and prince for 20 years, i saw collective ecstasies, what emil durkheim called "collective effervescence," ecstatic experiences at work in audiences all over north america.</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 18pt;">in fact, one of the jobs of my entertainers was to reliably evoke these transcendent experiences. and in building the careers of people like Prince, it was my job to help deliver these ecstasies. they are real.</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 18pt;">if science can't address the question of these experiences, it abandons the aspiration to omniscience. and it's not science.</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 18pt;">with warmth and oomph--howard</span></div>
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<span style='font-family: "Helvetica Neue"; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(38, 40, 42);'>On Monday, March 10, 2025 at 07:49:34 PM EDT, Katherine Peil<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style='font-family: "Helvetica Neue"; font-size: 10pt; color: blue;'><u><a class="OWAAutoLink" href="mailto:ktpeil@outlook.com" id="OWAff8756f8-163a-460e-5512-ee9e5e698bc0" moz-do-not-send="true" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><ktpeil@outlook.com></a></u></span><span style='font-family: "Helvetica Neue"; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(38, 40, 42);'> wrote:</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Avenir, sans-serif; color: rgb(38, 40, 42);">Hello All,</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Avenir, sans-serif; color: rgb(38, 40, 42);">The discussion about<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Avenir, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(38, 40, 42);">“</span><span style="font-family: Avenir, sans-serif; color: rgb(38, 40, 42);">nothing" or “something" being exchanged between speakers and listeners prompts this<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Avenir, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(38, 40, 42);">question: What about the phenomenon of "emotional contagion”? Do Mike Levin’s revelation about bioelectricity bear upon the concept of “subtle energy”?</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Avenir, sans-serif; color: rgb(38, 40, 42);">Also, science is remiss if it fails to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Avenir, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(38, 40, 42);">interrogate</span><span style="font-family: Avenir, sans-serif; color: rgb(38, 40, 42);"> the nature and power of “faith”, given our embodied capacities for anomalous or “spiritual" experiences. Pre-emptive pejoratives are not good science, but they abound.</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Avenir, sans-serif; color: rgb(38, 40, 42);">Kate Kauffman</span></div>
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--<br>
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Oxford Advanced Research Foundation</i><br>
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<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">_______________________________________________</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">Fis mailing list</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">
<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">----------</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">INFORMACI�N SOBRE PROTECCI�N DE DATOS DE CAR�CTER PERSONAL</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">
<br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">Puede encontrar toda la informaci�n sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">Recuerde que si est� suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicaci�n en el momento en que lo desee.</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">http://listas.unizar.es</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">----------</span></div>
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<br>
<br type="_moz">
<div>Prof. Dr. Thomas Görnitz<br>
Fellow of the INTERNATIONAL ACADEMY OF INFORMATION STUDIES <br>
<br>
Privat (für Postsendungen):<br>
Karl-Mangold-Str. 13<br>
D-81245 München<br>
Tel: 0049-89-887746<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://goernitzunderstandingquantumtheory.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!ROlXTYuwJogmALLaJx8VqTPqQ28z9DPYhGXpVjPSEZxY72BKIUTJuYMurrXWaB0a1EOH0e3MPGiAHlGkaf42pkDi1sXTNw$" target="_blank">https://goernitzunderstandingquantumtheory.com/</a><br>
<br>
Fachbereich Physik<br>
J. W. Goethe-Universität Frankfurt/Main</div></body></html>