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<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">you have an amazing background, eric.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span>with warmth and oomph--howard</span><br></div><div><br></div>
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On Tuesday, March 11, 2025 at 11:24:44 AM EDT, Eric Werner <eric.werner@oarf.org> wrote:
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<p>Dear Kate, Howard and All,</p>
<p>I have had highs in concerts and deep experiences with the
Aborigines in the heart of Australia. These experiences seem to
have little to do with each other. </p>
<p>The insight given to me by my experience in Australia evoked the
thought "They are crazy over there". Where "over there" was
European and American industrialized societies, their wrong path
and lack of genuine meaning. </p>
<p>The insight given to me while blowing up balloons backstage at a
Rolling Stones concert was, well, seeing Mick Jagger from the
back while he elicited the highs in his frontal audience. (My
girlfriend and I didn't have tickets and tried to get in and
lucked out being asked if we wanted to help backstage.) So I, the
Ph.D. -logician-philosopher-computer AI scientist-developmental
biologist-cancer theorist-(back at you Howard😉), worked for a
time for Mick Jagger! <br clear="none">
</p>
<p>What is the point?: I learned more from my interaction with a
50,000 year old mind in Australia than from all the science and
even Mick Jagger! It was emotion but it was more. Certainly not
material. <br clear="none">
</p>
<p>As for the Beethoven sequence (of creating, encoding,
interpreting and executing the encoding, hearing the execution,
encoding and experiencing}, has interesting relations to embryonic
development. Such transformations are at the heart of development
and communication. <br clear="none">
</p>
<p>-Eric<br clear="none">
</p>
<div class="ydp42b9ab84yiv0040424180moz-cite-prefix">On 3/11/25 5:48 AM, Howard Bloom wrote:<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr" style="font-size:24px;">kate,
your question about emotional contagion and what we can call
"the cloud effect" is a good one.</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-size:24px;"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">about this
statement, with which i deeply agree:</div>
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<blockquote style="padding-left:10px;border-left:2px solid rgb(15, 105, 255);margin-left:20px;"><font size="5"><font face="Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" style="font-family:Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family:Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">science is
remiss if it fails to </span></font><font face="Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">interrogate</span></font><font><font face="Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" style="font-family:Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family:Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> the nature
and power of </span></font><span style="font-family:Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">“</span><font face="Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font face="Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">faith</span></font><span style="font-family:Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">”</span>,
given our embodied capacities for anomalous or
“spiritual" experiences</font></font></font></blockquote>
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<div dir="ltr" style="font-size:24px;">i'm
an atheist. when science first grabbed hold of my soul when
i was ten years old, its aspiration to me seemed to be
omniscience.</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-size:24px;"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr" style="font-size:24px;">spiritual
experiences are real. they may not be manifestations of
god, especially to folks like me to whom there is no god.
so what the hell are they? where do they come from? how did
they evolve? what do they mean? what do they tell us about
the nature of the cosmos that has birthed them?</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-size:24px;"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr" style="font-size:24px;">in
my fieldwork in mass behavior, working with people like
michael jackson and prince for 20 years, i saw collective
ecstasies, what emil durkheim called "collective
effervescence," ecstatic experiences at work in audiences
all over north america.</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-size:24px;"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-size:24px;">in
fact, one of the jobs of my entertainers was to reliably
evoke these transcendent experiences. and in building the
careers of people like Prince, it was my job to help deliver
these ecstasies. they are real.</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-size:24px;"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-size:24px;">if
science can't address the question of these experiences, it
abandons the aspiration to omniscience. and it's not
science.</div>
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<div dir="ltr" style="font-size:24px;"><span>with
warmth and oomph--howard</span><br clear="none">
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<div class="ydp42b9ab84yiv0040424180ydp697915adquoted-text-header"> On Monday, March
10, 2025 at 07:49:34 PM EDT, Katherine Peil
<a shape="rect" href="mailto:ktpeil@outlook.com" class="ydp42b9ab84yiv0040424180moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><ktpeil@outlook.com></a> wrote: </div>
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<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;">
<span style="font-family:Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Hello All,</span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span style="font-family:Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">The discussion
about </span></font><font face="Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">“</span></font><font face="Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span style="font-family:Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">nothing"
or “something" being exchanged between
speakers and listeners prompts this </span><span></span></font><font face="Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">question:
What about the phenomenon of "emotional
contagion”? Do Mike Levin’s
revelation about bioelectricity bear upon the
concept of “subtle energy”?</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3" style="font-family:Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family:Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Also, science
is remiss if it fails to </span></font><font face="Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">interrogate</span></font><font size="3"><font face="Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" style="font-family:Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family:Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> the nature
and power of </span></font><span style="font-family:Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">“</span><font face="Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font face="Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">faith</span></font><span style="font-family:Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">”</span>,
given our embodied capacities for anomalous or
“spiritual" experiences. Pre-emptive
pejoratives are not good science, but they
abound.</font></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;">
<font size="3"><font face="Avenir, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Kate
Kauffman</font></font></div>
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<div class="ydp42b9ab84yiv0040424180moz-signature">-- <br clear="none">
<i>
Dr. Eric Werner, FLS <br clear="none">
Oxford Advanced Research Foundation <br clear="none">
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