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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear Eric, Kate, Howard, and All,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Being a physicist, and reading recent discussions, I would like to
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">argue</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> that there is no such thing as immaterial emotions.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">At the core, emotions are material phenomena.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Likewise,
<i>relations</i> are fundamentally material. There is no information without physical implementation, as Landauer famously argued.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Below are my five arguments on</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">
<span lang="EN-US">embodyment of </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">emotional contagion.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">1. Emotional Contagion is a Biological Process<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Emotional contagion occurs through bodily interactions—facial expressions, gestures, tone of voice, posture, and even subtle physiological
signals (heart rate, breathing patterns). When one person smiles, it activates mirror neurons in the observer’s brain, prompting similar facial muscles to contract, causing measurable physical changes and subsequent shifts in emotional state.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">2. Emotional Contagion is Chemically Mediated<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Emotional states are directly connected to biochemical substances like oxytocin, cortisol, dopamine, and serotonin. When emotional contagion
happens, it does so through these material biochemical mediators. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">3. Emotional Contagion Based on Embodiment of Emotion<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Emotions are not "floating" entities—they are communicated via bodily presence. The presence of a physical body expressing emotion is essential
for contagion. Without physical embodiment (special facial expressions, sound, rhythm, smell, touch, posture, movements), emotional contagion does not occur. Emotions transmitted through screens (video calls) are weaker compared to face-to-face interactions
precisely because physical embodiment. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">4. Manipulability of Emotional Contagion<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Emotional contagion can be modified or dampened pharmacologically (e.g., through anxiety-reducing drugs). If emotions were immaterial, medications
wouldn't alter emotional responses. Beta-blockers reduce physical symptoms of anxiety (heartbeat, shaking), weakening emotional contagion (e.g., stage fright contagion). Antidepressants directly alter emotional contagion by stabilizing neurotransmitters.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">5. Neuroscientific Evidence of Embodied Resonance<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Neuroimaging clearly demonstrates activation of specific physical brain areas (mirror neuron systems, limbic system, amygdala) during emotional
reactions. This direct neural activity is material. Seeing someone in pain activates similar pain circuits in the observer's brain—physically embodying the emotion in neural tissue.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">How this counters the immaterial perspective?<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Those who argue emotions are "immaterial" claim emotions are disconnected from the body. However, emotional contagion’s dependence on observable,
biological, chemical, and neurological mechanisms refute this clearly. If emotions were immaterial, contagion wouldn’t require physical presence with related physiological processes involving chemical, or neuronal pathways.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">All the best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="SV" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Gordana<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="SV" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="SV" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">PS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">My arguments are the result of a long discussion with GPT-4.5, which produced 20 pages of text. These were the prompts I used:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Can you please explain emotional contagion to me?<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Do you see a connection to the resonance phenomen</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">a</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">
in physics?*<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">What are the main differences between physical resonance and emotional contagion?<br>
(At this point, GPT-4.5 began to explain the view that emotions, like consciousness, are subjective and therefore immaterial, while physical resonance is a material phenomenon. I argued that it confused "subjective" with "immaterial." Subjective experience
is necessarily embodied and thus has a material substrate. GPT-4.5 accepted my arguments.)<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Can you summarize this discussion?<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Finally, I edited the summary, shortening it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I wrote this mail and asked GPT-4.5 to check my English.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">What was my contribution?<br>
A physicist's view on emotional contagion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">* Resonance occurs when an external force or
<i>driving frequency matches the natural frequency of a system</i>, causing the system to oscillate with greatly increased amplitude.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Fis <fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es> on behalf of Eric Werner <eric.werner@oarf.org><br>
<b>Organisation: </b>OARF.org<br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, 11 March 2025 at 16:24<br>
<b>To: </b>Howard Bloom <howlbloom@aol.com>, "fis@listas.unizar.es" <fis@listas.unizar.es>, Katherine Peil <ktpeil@outlook.com><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Fis] Emotional Contagion?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p>Dear Kate, Howard and All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I have had highs in concerts and deep experiences with the Aborigines in the heart of Australia. These experiences seem to have little to do with each other. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>The insight given to me by my experience in Australia evoked the thought "They are crazy over there". Where "over there" was European and American industrialized societies, their wrong path and lack of genuine meaning. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>The insight given to me while blowing up balloons backstage at a Rolling Stones concert was, well, seeing Mick Jagger from the back while he elicited the highs in his frontal audience. (My girlfriend and I didn't have tickets and tried to get in and lucked
out being asked if we wanted to help backstage.) So I, the Ph.D. -logician-philosopher-computer AI scientist-developmental biologist-cancer theorist-(back at you Howard<span style="font-family:"Apple Color Emoji"">😉</span>), worked for a time for Mick Jagger!
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>What is the point?: I learned more from my interaction with a 50,000 year old mind in Australia than from all the science and even Mick Jagger! It was emotion but it was more. Certainly not material.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>As for the Beethoven sequence (of creating, encoding, interpreting and executing the encoding, hearing the execution, encoding and experiencing}, has interesting relations to embryonic development. Such transformations are at the heart of development and
communication. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>-Eric<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 3/11/25 5:48 AM, Howard Bloom wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">kate, your question about emotional contagion and what we can call "the cloud effect" is a good one.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">about this statement, with which i deeply agree:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Avenir",sans-serif">science is remiss if it fails to interrogate the nature and power of “faith”, given our embodied capacities for anomalous or “spiritual" experiences</span><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">i'm an atheist. when science first grabbed hold of my soul when i was ten years old, its aspiration to me seemed to be omniscience.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">spiritual experiences are real. they may not be manifestations of god, especially to folks like me to whom there is no god. so what the hell are they? where do they come
from? how did they evolve? what do they mean? what do they tell us about the nature of the cosmos that has birthed them?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">in my fieldwork in mass behavior, working with people like michael jackson and prince for 20 years, i saw collective ecstasies, what emil durkheim called "collective effervescence,"
ecstatic experiences at work in audiences all over north america.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">in fact, one of the jobs of my entertainers was to reliably evoke these transcendent experiences. and in building the careers of people like Prince, it was my job to help
deliver these ecstasies. they are real.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">if science can't address the question of these experiences, it abandons the aspiration to omniscience. and it's not science.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">with warmth and oomph--howard<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A">On Monday, March 10, 2025 at 07:49:34 PM EDT, Katherine Peil
<a href="mailto:ktpeil@outlook.com"><ktpeil@outlook.com></a> wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Avenir",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Hello All,</span><span style="color:#26282A"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Avenir",sans-serif;color:#26282A">The discussion about </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Avenir",sans-serif;color:#26282A">“</span><span style="font-family:"Avenir",sans-serif;color:#26282A">nothing"
or “something" being exchanged between speakers and listeners prompts this </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Avenir",sans-serif;color:#26282A">question: What about the phenomenon of "emotional contagion”? Do Mike Levin’s revelation about bioelectricity
bear upon the concept of “subtle energy”?</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Avenir",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Also, science is remiss if it fails to </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Avenir",sans-serif;color:#26282A">interrogate</span><span style="font-family:"Avenir",sans-serif;color:#26282A"> the
nature and power of “faith”, given our embodied capacities for anomalous or “spiritual" experiences. Pre-emptive pejoratives are not good science, but they abound.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Avenir",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Kate Kauffman</span><span style="color:#26282A"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#26282A">_______________________________________________<br>
Fis mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br>
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INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL<br>
<br>
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.<br>
Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace:
<a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" target="_blank">
https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a><br>
Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.<br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es</a><br>
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<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fis mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>----------<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: <a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://listas.unizar.es">http://listas.unizar.es</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>----------<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">-- <br>
<i>Dr. Eric Werner, FLS <br>
Oxford Advanced Research Foundation <br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/oarf.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QQBg5ryajaFu_Ptr3S6YxNCU_E-oidIbq4uhG4e5rAsW4uD3RDIxCECAaYK01LoFG0BFWab52U1eaiQTN6meFGA$">https://oarf.org</a>
<br>
<br>
</i><o:p></o:p></p>
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