<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Dear Katherine</div>I do not yet take the step to “explain” how to go from percept to concept.<div class="">The point I inhabit is prior to that.</div><div class="">In every situation where you have percept you also have concept.</div><div class="">They arise together for you.</div><div class="">Possibly not with the good concept you are searching for.</div><div class="">For example, consider the way the perception of Saturn’s rings first appeared as lune-like patterns on the orb of the planet.</div><div class="">The better concept of rings took some time.</div><div class="">But every time there is a perception there is at the very least some concept, some description and it is from this place of percept/concept together that we proceed.</div><div class="">From there you may or may not conclude that there is no way to reduce percept to concept and there is no way to reduce concept to percept.</div><div class="">That is my position as a working position.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Experience provides evidence that there is much more to the concurrence. In typing I can accomplish the task without looking at the keys.</div><div class="">I have no training in this. I found that eventually I did it. I do not know how it works or why it is reliable. If you asked me which fingers make which letters, I could not answer.</div><div class="">The same goes for improvisation on my clarinet, but there I do keep conscious track of the key and some other contextual information. Then my “fingers” do the rest in feedback with ear and brain.</div><div class="">LeDoux has an important point and I would like to know how he links the Cognitive Computations with the Affective Computations. In music practice we do this very deliberately, but in performance </div><div class="">(also part of practice) we let it happen. Music seems to begin with the affective. Doing mathematics seems to often begin in the cognitive, but achieves new creation at the nexus of cognitive and affective levels.</div><div class="">This is why many people gravitate to geometry. And the Pythagoreans knew that music and geometry were one.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Steiner in his early work focused on the self-reference of "thought thinking thought” which I take to be at the nexus of concept and percept. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In logical and pre logical work it helps to use signs iconically.</div><div class="">Thus a circle such as O can stand for a distinction and we can “see” that the circle itself makes a distinction in the plane.</div><div class="">Thus the circle O is seen to refer to itself.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In this self-reference the Peircian Triangle</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> Interpretant</div><div class=""> Signifier Signified</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Collapses to. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> Interpretant</div><div class=""> O</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The O does not have a separate meaning from its interpretant.</div><div class="">This leads George Spencer-Brown to declaim:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><img apple-inline="yes" id="218A82B1-1D93-47BA-8DA2-C5FD83218303" width="450" height="124" src="cid:84709B7E-342D-4BDA-9B07-05F654C166CA" class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I suggest that this situation is imaged in the orthodox form of quantum measurement where the smooth and determinate evolution of the wave function is</div><div class="">Interrupted by the mark of observation. Without an observer there is no distinction and the world unseen evolves in potentia. With an observer comes</div><div class="">percept and concept and all the rest. When I was 16 I called the potentia the “guarded source of the discrete”. Can’t do any better yet.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best,</div><div class="">Lou</div><div class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 12, 2025, at 5:21 PM, Katherine Peil <<a href="mailto:ktpeil@outlook.com" class="">ktpeil@outlook.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta charset="UTF-8" class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Avenir Book";" class="">Thanks Pedro – great to hear from you. A quick comment on:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Avenir Book";" class="">…. I see a problem going from "percepts to concepts" as Lou claims <br class="">below. Neuroscience has nowadays a rare consensus on not dissociating <br class="">PERCEPTION and ACTION. The "Action Perception Cycle"…<o:p class=""></o:p></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Avenir Book";" class="">From the view of emotion science, this reflects a neurocentric problem wherein “cognition” (perceptual processing) confounds<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">sensations that lead to actions</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>– embodied emotional sensations that came on the evolutionary stage well before nerve nets or brains. It is emotion that is central to action, behavior and motivation.<br class=""><br class="">Neuroscientist Jospeh LeDoux made this key distinction:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Avenir Book";" class="">Cognitive computations</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Avenir Book";" class="">: Reflective, conscious, goal-directed thought, often linked to areas of the brain involved in higher cognitive functions.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Avenir Book";" class=""><b class="">Affective computations</b>: Automatic, unconscious, emotional processing, often linked to areas of the brain involved in emotional regulation and survival mechanisms. They always concern “the self” and the lead to actions.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Avenir Book";" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Avenir Book";" class="">I can paraphrase his example…” there is a huge experiential difference between the thought that a snake is a reptile, that its skin can be made into belts and shoes, and the thought that a snake is likely to be dangerous.”<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Avenir Book";" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Avenir Book";" class="">Recall my claim that emotion in its simplest binary form – akin to pleasure or pain - carries the foundational semantic information bit that undergirds all learning systems, but emerges from the dynamics and logic of genetic, epigenetic and immune regulation. The Perception-Action-Cycle relies on the emotional component, so IMHO Lou is still on safe and important new ground.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Avenir Book";" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Avenir Book";" class="">Kate Kauffman<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Avenir Book";" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Avenir Book";" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;" class="">On 1/12/25, 2:59 PM, "Fis" <<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>> wrote: Katherine Peil Kauffman<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">Send Fis mailing list submissions to<br class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br class=""><br class="">To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistas.unizar.es%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ffis&data=05%7C02%7C%7C35e8064bf4c14affea6a08dd33545558%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638723159494036503%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Dvr9QGZfaouyXo8ljRFL%2BTtN5x9gzbAUHrm%2FQnL2DFA%3D&reserved=0</a><br class="">or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:fis-request@listas.unizar.es" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">fis-request@listas.unizar.es</a><br class=""><br class="">You can reach the person managing the list at<br class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:fis-owner@listas.unizar.es" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">fis-owner@listas.unizar.es</a><br class=""><br class="">When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br class="">than "Re: Contents of Fis digest..."<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Today's Topics:<br class=""><br class=""> 1. Re: LOF Friday (Pedro C. Mariju?n)<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">----------------------------------------------------------------------<br class=""><br class="">Message: 1<br class="">Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2025 22:58:21 +0100<br class="">From: Pedro C. Mariju?n <<a href="mailto:pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com</a>><br class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br class="">Subject: Re: [Fis] LOF Friday<br class="">Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:d93cbae2-038d-4733-8071-4f7b93a4f6d6@gmail.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">d93cbae2-038d-4733-8071-4f7b93a4f6d6@gmail.com</a>><br class="">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br class=""><br class="">Dear List,<br class=""><br class="">Please, take care to post properly (as the server automatically<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">demands), as otherwise I become rather overwhelmed wit all the different<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">warning messages. Thanks Lou for the tip about that.<br class=""><br class="">Well, I see a problem going from "percepts to concepts" as Lou claims<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">below. Neuroscience has nowadays a rare consensus on not dissociating<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">PERCEPTION and ACTION. The "Action Perception Cycle" is the most common<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">acceptation. The "concept" gets? not too far from either side, and<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">usually it is incorporating elements of each kind, with different<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">predominance. Joaqu?n Fuster (2008 and 2014 I think) coined the term<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">"cognit" to refer to the intermediate stage, having both percept ears<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">and action legs (so to speak). The union of cognits legs and ears (or<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">legs and legs, ears and ears, etc.) would give birth to different kinds<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">of concepts, and the union of concepts via shared cognits would give<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">rise to conceptualizations, sentences, etc. Having entered action in the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">world scheme is not trivial at all. Our litmus test for reality is not<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">that the percept agrees with the concept, but with the action. It is, as<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">we consider in the world of science, the whole experimental part... the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">"fact". As Goethe's Faust aptly says: "In the beginning was the deed"!<br class=""><br class="">My other brief pill refers again to autopoiesis. A few cellular<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">arguments not well tolerated (or only partially some of them) by<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">autopoiesis:<br class=""><br class="">--The enormous cellular importance of protein degradation. The world of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">proteasomes (the cell "industry of destruction") is fascinating, even in<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">the simplest cells.<br class="">--The different classes of programmed cell death, essentially apoptosis,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">is also of enormous multicell--and even bacterial-- importance.<br class="">--The absorption of external DNA is quite frequent, and even customary<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">in some bacteria.<br class="">--The horizontal gene transmission is of great evolutionary importance<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">too (the world of phages, plasmids, transposons...)<br class="">--A number of genes in E. coli are never expressed in a regular life<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">cycle (close to 30 or 40%, depending on the happenstances)<br class="">--The revolutionary role of 'external' viruses in the greatest evo<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">transitions (Villarroel, Witzany).<br class=""><br class="">So, even if you consider these caveats fulfilled in larger and larger<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">definitions of autopoiesis, there is another point that may be quite<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">troubling: information flow and signaling disappear, and are substituted<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">by the structural coupling with the environment and the observer<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">conceptualization involvement. The big concern is that advancement of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">the life cycle, as the central hub to which signaling or external flows<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">cohere, and to which biological meaning relates, does not occupy its<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">explanatory essential role... while adaptively advancing the life cycle<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">is the silver thread that connects all biological world, including our<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">own societies.<br class=""><br class="">I understand that for a mathematician the AP idea is quite handy, and<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">fruitful, but for those interested in the evolution of signals,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">sensibility, action, emotions, social emotions, etc. is perhaps a<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">stumbling block to overcome. By the way, your previous post to Krassimir<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">on information was quite valuable, a firm standpoint which I share. I<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">was trying to comment on it, but my daily schedule is bizarre.<br class=""><br class="">Best--Pedro<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Fis mailing list</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">----------</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">http://listas.unizar.es</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">----------</span></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>