<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Sorry Jason, you are right. It is a
      technicality after each inscription (I have to wait for the
      response of the invitee, and then give my further OK). You are now
      free to post, with the known limitations of 2 -3 messages per
      week, and the mssg size of 300K. These three messages from you,
      below, that I am also posting in the list, would make for your
      weekly contribution. Next Monday you can start a new posting
      period.<br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Regards--Pedro</div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">El 15/12/2024 a las 16:56, Jason Hu
      escribió:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+SRcks+wnMiopPt3FODZd4i5e_4n7FBQaa3x5wSNPUEACXWtw@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">Hi Marcus, Hi
          Pedro, I think I went through the "sign-up process." But I
          seem to be "moderated" as an outside. This is "boundary", one
          of my three-variable definition of "system": A set of
          elements, a set of relations, and a boundary. </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">The classic
          definition of "system" is S={E, R} when E and R are sets for
          elements and relations. I add a Boundary there to highlight
          the existence of the observer, who draws and even
          institutionalizes a boundary, thus also specifying the content
          of set E and set R. It is all cognitive activity for the
          individual and consensus forming for a group. </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">It is up to
          the FIS list owner to decide if my message can reach FIS
          members of not, i.e., if I'm welcome or not, or, if I'm
          perceived as constructive or destructive.</div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">Best - Jason </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir="ltr">
            <div class="gmail_quote">
              <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded
                message ---------<br>
                From: <strong class="gmail_sendername" dir="auto">Jason
                  Hu</strong> <span dir="auto"><<a
                    href="mailto:jasonthegoodman@gmail.com"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                    class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jasonthegoodman@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
                Date: Sun, Dec 15, 2024 at 12:57 PM<br>
                Subject: Re: [Fis] Various Thoughts . . .<br>
                To: Mark Johnson <<a
                  href="mailto:johnsonmwj1@gmail.com" target="_blank"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">johnsonmwj1@gmail.com</a>><br>
                Cc: Marcus Abundis <<a href="mailto:55mrcs@gmail.com"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext">55mrcs@gmail.com</a>>,
                fis <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>>,
                Jason Cheung <<a href="mailto:jcheung889@gmail.com"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jcheung889@gmail.com</a>><br>
              </div>
              <br>
              <br>
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div style="font-size:large">Dear Mark,</div>
                <div style="font-size:large">A definition is an
                  explanation of a term/word/concept that describes a
                  phenomenon emerging in the cognitive systems of a
                  group of people. Two features of it must be
                  highlighted: (1) it is cognitive-system based; (2) it
                  is group consensus-based.</div>
                <div style="font-size:large">Therefore, to define
                  something, we must first "see it," i.e., cognition,
                  and second, "we"(the group or the community) must
                  "build a consensus." Thus, it is natural that people
                  argue because a consensus has yet to emerge due to the
                  diversity of cognitive system differences within the
                  group, and the group might be enlarging.</div>
                <div style="font-size:large">Best - Jason </div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                  <div class="gmail_quote">
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div dir="ltr">
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
                                <div dir="ltr">
                                  <div>
                                    <table border="0" cellpadding="0"
                                      cellspacing="0"
style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:proxima-nova-1,proxima-nova-2,Tahoma,Helvetica,Verdana,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;border-spacing:0px;color:rgb(51,51,51);line-height:18px">
                                      <tbody
style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline">
                                        <tr
style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline">
                                          <td
style="padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-size:0px;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;width:auto;height:30px"> </td>
                                        </tr>
                                        <tr
style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline">
                                          <td
style="padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;width:auto"><br>
                                          </td>
                                        </tr>
                                        <tr
style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline">
                                          <td
style="padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-size:0px;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;width:auto;height:20px"><br>
                                          </td>
                                        </tr>
                                      </tbody>
                                    </table>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
                              <div dir="ltr">On Sun, Dec 15, 2024 at
                                6:35 AM Jason Hu <<a
href="mailto:jasonthegoodman@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jasonthegoodman@gmail.com</a>>
                                wrote:<br>
                                Dear Marcus and All,<br>
                                <br>
                                I have been observing these
                                conversations for a few weeks and see
                                the pain of some of you struggling from
                                individual cognition towards possible
                                collective cognition or from individual
                                wisdom towards some kind of collective
                                wisdom, a very difficult task indeed.
                                (Quote Marcus: "a very sore point and
                                extraordinarily chronic – to the point
                                of even inspiring too many
                                odd/unhelpful/egoic insults and
                                attacks..., ...How shall we proceed?
                                ..., ...this goal might be best pursued
                                by 2-3? committed (BEST QUALIFIED,
                                non-egoic ‘fair witnesses’) individuals
                                most likely equal to the task- perhaps
                                working on a collaborative online
                                document . .")<br>
                                <br>
                                My suggestion is that you can consider
                                upgrading your mode of conversation from
                                text email into face-to-face online
                                meetings. Let me introduce you the
                                platform of Club of Remy (sometimes
                                called Mini-Macy-Meetings or "M cube.")
                                 <br>
                                <br>
                                "Mini" because we hold a discussion
                                session if there are three colleagues
                                interested in a same or similar topic,
                                e.g., "How do we define information?"
                                (Historical Macy Meetings had about
                                thirty participants, so we are 1/10 in
                                size) Each person prepare 7 PPT slides
                                to highlight his/her points, to be
                                presented on the meeting. So that will
                                take the first hour. In the second hour,
                                the three discussants engage into a deep
                                "meeting of the minds." Audience are
                                welcome but not neccessary, they can
                                joing the discussion or just listen. The
                                whole process is recorded and upload to
                                YouTube for later viewers. Simple,
                                effective, powerful.<br>
                                <br>
                                The Club of Remy website introduce this
                                process in detail: <a
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://clubofremy.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UWQW0t9Ug0Bgiwpkm9jAz71kXj__qyALTdskOQ-T9rcqwpf_Ln3ImgzfB1mGxBwWQr31aKLxri_Z2AF1$"
                                  rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true">https://clubofremy.org</a>
                                <br>
                                You can find our video recordings here:
                                <a
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://YouTube.com@clubofremy/videos__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UWQW0t9Ug0Bgiwpkm9jAz71kXj__qyALTdskOQ-T9rcqwpf_Ln3ImgzfB1mGxBwWQr31aKLxrtf2zoXm$"
                                  rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true">https://YouTube.com@clubofremy/videos</a><br>
                                 <br>
                                Interested colleagues can send me a
                                Title-Abstract-Outline of the topic you
                                want to discuss (one page or one
                                screenful in length). I post it to our
                                club members (about 200) and perhaps to
                                FIS members in this case. If there are
                                two more people signing up to be
                                discussants, the three will pick up a
                                date. We usually have our meetings on
                                Wednesdays (The historical Macy Meetings
                                were on Tuesdays.) <br>
                                <br>
                                I hope this message will qualify as
                                "information" for you, i.e., "A
                                difference that makes a difference."
                                Even you are not accepting is this
                                suggestion, it might provoke your
                                thinking too.<br>
                                <br>
                                Best regards - Jason<br>
                                ------------------------------------<br>
                                Jason Jixuan Hu, Ph.D.<br>
                                Independent Research Scholar <br>
                                Organizer: Club of REMY:  <a
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.clubofremy.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UWQW0t9Ug0Bgiwpkm9jAz71kXj__qyALTdskOQ-T9rcqwpf_Ln3ImgzfB1mGxBwWQr31aKLxrglq6IDo$"
                                  rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true">www.clubofremy.org</a>
                                <br>
                                General Partner: WINTOP Group: <a
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.wintopgroup.com__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UWQW0t9Ug0Bgiwpkm9jAz71kXj__qyALTdskOQ-T9rcqwpf_Ln3ImgzfB1mGxBwWQr31aKLxriq4iqS3$"
                                  rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true">www.wintopgroup.com</a>
                                <br>
                                Introduction: <a
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://drjasonhu.com__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UWQW0t9Ug0Bgiwpkm9jAz71kXj__qyALTdskOQ-T9rcqwpf_Ln3ImgzfB1mGxBwWQr31aKLxrgH_BTRL$"
                                  rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true">https://drjasonhu.com</a><br>
                                Wiki Page: <a
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tinyurl.com/JJH008__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UWQW0t9Ug0Bgiwpkm9jAz71kXj__qyALTdskOQ-T9rcqwpf_Ln3ImgzfB1mGxBwWQr31aKLxrlCe-_DX$"
                                  rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true">https://tinyurl.com/JJH008</a>
                                 <br>
                                Video: <a
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tinyurl.com/JJHsprach__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UWQW0t9Ug0Bgiwpkm9jAz71kXj__qyALTdskOQ-T9rcqwpf_Ln3ImgzfB1mGxBwWQr31aKLxrsy5UYad$"
                                  rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true">https://tinyurl.com/JJHsprach</a><br>
                                office: <a
                                  href="mailto:jjh@wintopgroup.com"
                                  rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jjh@wintopgroup.com</a><br>
                                mobile: <a
href="mailto:jasonthegoodman@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jasonthegoodman@gmail.com</a><br>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      _______________________________________________<br>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          Fis mailing list<br>
          <a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>
          <a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis"
            rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br>
          ----------<br>
          INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL<br>
          <br>
          Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo
          gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.<br>
          Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus
          datos en el siguiente enlace: <a
href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas"
            rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a><br>
          Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede
          darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que
          lo desee.<br>
          <a href="http://listas.unizar.es" rel="noreferrer"
            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://listas.unizar.es</a><br>
          ----------<br>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
  </body>
</html>