<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir="ltr">
<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Dear Alex, Joe, Mark , and All:</div>
<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
I find the appearance of remarkable concepts in our discussion very challenging: perennial philosophy, revision of the theory of evolution, and postmodern French philosophy.</div>
<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
I am digesting your thoughts, and hope to send a more substantial post about 18 hours later.</div>
<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Kind regards,</div>
<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Peter</div>
<span class="_Entity _EType_OWA_VirtualEdit_Placeholder _EId_OWA_VirtualEdit_Placeholder _EReadonly_0" style="height: 21px;"><br>
</span>
<div id="Signature">
<div style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://blogs.kzoo.edu/perdi/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!V9pGWVnrGix8iYOTIEtL1iJbcL5my7XkJK-TOHuDN4ah3gtOBc-Na4v5AXVKEhgYcA6_avZLWIX1y7Ijlud_q4nE$">http://blogs.kzoo.edu/perdi/</a></div>
<div style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI5wPgp7iWiUPwbXdRA-9VQ__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!V9pGWVnrGix8iYOTIEtL1iJbcL5my7XkJK-TOHuDN4ah3gtOBc-Na4v5AXVKEhgYcA6_avZLWIX1y7Ijlr1U2T3Z$">https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI5wPgp7iWiUPwbXdRA-9VQ</a></div>
</div>
<div id="appendonsend"></div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> joe.brenner@bluewin.ch <joe.brenner@bluewin.ch><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, October 27, 2024 6:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mark Johnson <johnsonmwj1@gmail.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Peter Erdi <Peter.Erdi@kzoo.edu>; fis <fis@listas.unizar.es><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] New Discussion Session--Complexity & feedback</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div><span style="font-size:12pt">Dear Mark and Peter, </span> </div>
<div class="x_default-style"> </div>
<div class="x_default-style"><span style="font-size:12pt">Your last two notes taken together, seem to me to offer a remarkable basis for further discussion. Both modify "circularity" in such a way (sic!) that there is just enough left of the simplistic notion
of circle while focussing non-circular dynamics. </span> </div>
<div class="x_default-style"> </div>
<div class="x_default-style"><span style="font-size:12pt">The French philosopher Jean Baudrillard (1929 - 2007) suggested two antagonistic forms in reality in a 2004 book (my translation): </span>
</div>
<div class="x_default-style"> </div>
<div class="x_default-style"><span style="font-size:12pt">Integral Reality: the irreversible movement of the totality of the world.</span>
</div>
<div class="x_default-style"><span style="font-size:12pt">Dual Form: the internal reversibility of the irreversible movement of the Real.</span>
</div>
<div class="x_default-style"> </div>
<div class="x_default-style"><span style="font-size:12pt">To avoid having to apply the overly semantic term of "contradictory" to these double, better recursive, movements, one may handle both by reference to the change of parts from actual to potential, and
<em>vice versa. </em></span> </div>
<div class="x_default-style"> </div>
<div class="x_default-style"><span style="font-size:12pt">A further advance been made by the contemporary French philosopher Augustin Berque. He proposes complementing transduction by the more complex term
<em>trajection </em>which takes into account the logical implications of our own existence, Links are thus possible to logics "of the middle" like those of the Orient.</span>
</div>
<div class="x_default-style"> </div>
<div class="x_default-style"><span style="font-size:12pt">Best,</span> </div>
<div class="x_default-style"><span style="font-size:12pt">Joseph</span> </div>
<div class="x_default-style"> </div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Le 27.10.2024 00:14 CEST, Mark Johnson <johnsonmwj1@gmail.com> a écrit : </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div dir="auto">Dear Alex and Peter
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Perrenialism is very close to the biological theory articulated here:
</div>
<div dir="auto"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5037349/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VRaaGNSlxzDRrTPUtuuKOkqO1VXTADuOkLlnCHAe_BlMp31SYD4bjliyaS7qv2tcDDnA1hQJnly7UMAH_2onucE$">https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5037349/</a>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Alex, this connection leapt out at me after reading your comment!
</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">It makes me wonder whether Darwinism haunts cybernetics. The view in the Torday/Miller paper suggests that the Darwinian paradigm of selection among phenotypes is incorrect, where instead phenotypes are agents of epigenetic inheritance in service
to cellular internal selection, with the "perennial" zygote as the focus, not the phenotype.
</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">While there is an increasing body of empirical evidence to support a cell-based view of evolution (currently argued by Denis Noble, Philip Ball, as well as Torday and colleagues), maybe the important question is to ask what this might mean for
the cybernetic thinking that Peter is discussing. </div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">A few points strike me as interesting: </div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">1. Circularity is a much better term than feedback, because it captures a deeper process of homeorhesis. But two questions concerning this are "what is stabilised?" and "who says?"
</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">2. Transduction is a more precise name for the process implicated in "circularity". Behind that is conservation of energy on the one hand, and conversion of energy on the other. Cells and organisms are transducers, but the transduction process
happens within them. It may operate with reference to the endogenised history of the cell in its own constitution.
</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">3. Transduction must involve both selection and niche construction. The selection is both internal, referencing the evolutionary history of the cell, and external in maintaining equipoise with the environment. This selection process is multidimensional,
featuring stochasticity (see Denis Noble), signals, constraints and coordination.
</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">4. The transduction process relies on cells being observers of other cells and of themselves. It cannot work without self-reference. This is probably to restate the Conant-Ashby good regulator theorem, or Rosen's anticipatory systems, or Stafford
Beer's "System 4" in the Viable System Model. </div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">5. Systems people get tied up in knots when failing to apprehend the dimensional difference between stochasticity (noise), signals, constraints and coordination. We need better conceptual tools for dealing with this.
</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Best wishes </div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Mark </div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="x_gmail_quote">
<div class="x_gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Mon, 21 Oct 2024, 09:39 Alex Hankey, <<a href="mailto:alexhankey@gmail.com">alexhankey@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
</div>
<blockquote>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:times new roman,serif; font-size:large; color:#0b5394">
Dear Peter, and Fis Members, </div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:times new roman,serif; font-size:large; color:#0b5394">
About 1970, the Futurology Research Group under Dr. Willis Harman </div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:times new roman,serif; font-size:large; color:#0b5394">
at SRI (Stanford Research Institute) showed that the only system of thought apparently able to save mankind from extinction was the Perennial Philosophy.
</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:times new roman,serif; font-size:large; color:#0b5394">
Developments and events over the past half century, such as the Enron crisis, Bankruptcies of banks such as London's Barings Bank, caused by unauthorised investments by senior employees, or the climate crisis and deforestation of the Amazon, driven by corporate
greed etc, suggest that this is true. </div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:times new roman,serif; font-size:large; color:#0b5394">
I live in India, the only country that subscribes to the Perennial Philosophy as the foundation of its 5 main religions, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, and Zoroastrianism, where I conduct research on the relationship between Science and Spirituality.
I therefore feel that I can state with some authority that, by and large, India sets an example in a number of areas, which are consistent with the conclusions of Harman's futurology work at SRI.
</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:times new roman,serif; font-size:large; color:#0b5394">
Looking at the violence being generated on different levels in North America, in the Middle East, in Russia, and by the Chinese Communist Party and its minions, we can see many threats to our future, some of which are ongoing, and others that promise to emerge
before the end of the present decade. </div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:times new roman,serif; font-size:large; color:#0b5394">
The Perennial Philosophy, as described in Aldous Huxley's book of that name, is embodied in the word's of Swami Vivekananda, one of India's greatest spiritual leaders in the late 19th century. Vivekananda stated, 'Man is born to become Divine'. He did not mean
in the present life-time, but rather by gaining greater and greater experience of Life through the cycles of death and rebirth, each human soul holds the potential to make the transition from being bound by his/her thoughts, words and actions, to a level where
by serving Divine levels, and acting in accordance with instructions received from the Divine, he / she rises to be on a level on a par with the Divine.
</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:times new roman,serif; font-size:large; color:#0b5394">
Several of India's greatest spiritual teachers today exemplify that transition. </div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:times new roman,serif; font-size:large; color:#0b5394">
By bringing their work to humanity as a whole, it may be possible to prevent our destruction, and enter a time of endless prosperity.
</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:times new roman,serif; font-size:large; color:#0b5394">
But only by subscribing to the universal values of Truth, Goodness and Beauty (violently rejected by the CCP) can we hope for this to happen.
</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:times new roman,serif; font-size:large; color:#0b5394">
All best wishes, </div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:times new roman,serif; font-size:large; color:#0b5394">
Sincerely, </div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:times new roman,serif; font-size:large; color:#0b5394">
Alex Hankey </div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:times new roman,serif; font-size:large; color:#0b5394">
</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:times new roman,serif; font-size:large; color:#0b5394">
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="x_gmail_quote">
<div class="x_gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 at 05:01, Peter Erdi <<a href="mailto:Peter.Erdi@kzoo.edu" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Peter.Erdi@kzoo.edu</a>> wrote:
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div id="x_m_1623905657489076922m_-8262190845165877122appendonsend"></div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Dear FISer: </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<em>Personal Intro:</em> </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
I am happily back in this community: I attended the 1994, 1996, and 2005 conferences. In the last twenty years, I have been active in the neural network community (<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.inns.org/fellows-senior-members/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Riy2Qkh0PimXlC7qOO0L0WhMXLRyScHp5jEvb9tSlHYDn5aLZUp0aA2WOHhM9mRN-R0qECHF-ReNWlzIFFCEJQy6$" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.inns.org/fellows-senior-members/</a>).
In the previous five years, I published three books, </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<a id="x_m_1623905657489076922m_-8262190845165877122LPlnk294841" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.amazon.com/Ranking-Unwritten-Rules-Social-Game/dp/0190935464/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Riy2Qkh0PimXlC7qOO0L0WhMXLRyScHp5jEvb9tSlHYDn5aLZUp0aA2WOHhM9mRN-R0qECHF-ReNWlzIFP9sLo6U$" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.amazon.com/Ranking-Unwritten-Rules-Social-Game/dp/0190935464/</a> ,
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<a id="x_m_1623905657489076922m_-8262190845165877122LPlnk754920" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.amazon.com/Repair-Improve-Objects-Ourselves-Society/dp/3030989070/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Riy2Qkh0PimXlC7qOO0L0WhMXLRyScHp5jEvb9tSlHYDn5aLZUp0aA2WOHhM9mRN-R0qECHF-ReNWlzIFKuHtajO$" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.amazon.com/Repair-Improve-Objects-Ourselves-Society/dp/3030989070/</a>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
The third is in press: </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<strong>Feedback: How to Destroy or Save the World </strong> </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.amazon.com/Repair-Improve-Objects-Ourselves-Society/dp/3030989070/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Riy2Qkh0PimXlC7qOO0L0WhMXLRyScHp5jEvb9tSlHYDn5aLZUp0aA2WOHhM9mRN-R0qECHF-ReNWlzIFKuHtajO$" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://link.springer.com/book/9783031624384</a><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.amazon.com/Repair-Improve-Objects-Ourselves-Society/dp/3030989070/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Riy2Qkh0PimXlC7qOO0L0WhMXLRyScHp5jEvb9tSlHYDn5aLZUp0aA2WOHhM9mRN-R0qECHF-ReNWlzIFKuHtajO$" target="_blank" rel="noopener" style="text-decoration:none"> </a>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
(There is a 20% discount code at checkout on <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://link.springer.com__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Szk4lYPkGi5BDvo8We0ODRu28kt6a19QJOVQUBkdaJRV_hLqwotelvKUE_hfvBDuedR8kcjhT7NR1WBbv80w-Q$" target="_blank" rel="noopener">
link.springer.com</a>: </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<em>I9rXjXjXbr7UGE</em> / Valid Oct 10, 2024 – Nov 7, 2024). The Foreword was written by Michael Arbib.
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
I hope you don't mind if I hope to have a lively discussion about both feedback control and its potential role in answering the question:
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<strong>Will humanity survive, and will our grandchildren live in prosperity? Or should we worry about the possibility of humanity's extinction? </strong>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<em> </em> </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<em>Hypothesis: </em>There is a narrow border between destruction and prosperity: to ensure reasonable growth but avoid existential risk, we must find a fine-tuned balance between positive and negative feedback. My attempt is not to deal with the impossible
task, to prove (certainly not in the spirit of formal feedback control theory), but to support the belief. Chapters 1 - 5 are about the historical roles of feedback control in nature, technology, and society. Chapters 6 and 7 discuss the dichotomy of destroying
or saving the world and the role of feedback control in avoiding huge catastrophes.
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
I suggest starting the discussion with a specific topic, but I am open to any comments, initial remarks, etc.
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<em>Chapter 1: Norbert Wiener's Dream: Technology, Life, and Society</em> </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
This chapter overviews the birth of Cybernetics as a general theory of </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
goal-seeking systems. It introduces the notion of positive and negative feedback and gives credit to the General Systems Theory, which gave a framework for integrating the natural sciences with the social sciences. Modern computers made possible the simulation
of social systems based on causal relationships among state variables, leading to various predicted scenarios about the world's future, some pessimistic.
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
One clear insight is that uncontrolled technological progress may negatively affect the environment, and we need to maintain a balance between economic growth and sustainability.
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<em>Chapter 2: Feedback Control in the History of Technology</em> </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
This chapter gives an overview of the application of feedback control </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
throughout technological development. In technological systems, the goal is to ensure that some physical quantities, such as temperature, pressure, velocity, or altitude (and many others), show some desirable, prescribed behavior over time. Negative feedback
stabilizes, while positive feedback amplifies even the initially minor differences.
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Outriggers, mechanical clocks, steam engines, aviation technologies, and electronics are the main stages of progress toward the Space Travel Age. Feedback control systems played a crucial role in space exploration.
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<em>Chapter 3: Feedback Control in Biological Systems</em> </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<em> </em> </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Feedback control is a fundamental tool at every level of the biological hierarchy, from cellular to socio-ecological systems. It ensures homeostasis by adopting a general mechanism for restoring certain states after a small perturbation. Dynamical diseases
occur due to the impairment of control systems. The theory of nonlinear dynamics offers a mathematical framework to analyze pathological temporal patterns. It aims to find control strategies to shift the physiological parameters back into normal ranges.
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<em>Chapter 4: Climate Changes, Wildfires, Tsunamis</em> </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
This chapter starts with analyzing the role of positive and negative feedback loops in climate systems. Self-reinforcing positive feedback loops could result in an irreversible tipping point when climate spins out of control, with catastrophic results. Reducing
the chance of climate catastrophe must become a central focus for civilization today, and appropriate feedback control strategies should be implemented.
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<em>Chapter 5: From Laissez-Faire to Greenspan: Feedback Control in Economic Systems</em>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
This chapter analyzes a fundamental question: Should economics be controlled or not? Is the “invisible hand” and the self-regulation of free market capitalism the best possible mechanism, or does the economy need governmental intervention? Minsky’s hypothesis
suggests that stability implies instability. It is an observational fact that the economy shows a cyclic pattern: business cycles with different frequencies
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
are very general. Uncompensated positive feedback is found to be a general mechanism leading to extreme events, among other hyperinflation.
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<em>Chapter 6: From Natural Disasters to Social Riots</em> </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
This chapter starts with analyzing whether we should worry about the </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
possibility of existential risk. In the subsection about the complex system <em>approach to political instability, several issues, namely terrorism, social unrest, and migration, are discussed. Finally, a short system-theoretical analysis implies that democracies
do better than autocracies.</em> </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<em> </em> </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<em>Chapter 7: Epilogue: The Narrow Border Between Prosperity and Destruction</em>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Do we live in the best possible world or the shadow of existential risk? The answer is BOTH! To avoid disasters, we need to apply the spirit of feedback control.
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
The ball is in your court, </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Péter Érdi, October 20, 2024 </div>
<hr style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="x_m_1623905657489076922m_-8262190845165877122divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,0)"><strong>From:</strong> Pedro C. Marijuán <<a href="mailto:pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com</a>><br>
<strong>Sent:</strong> Friday, October 18, 2024 12:08 PM<br>
<strong>To:</strong> Peter Erdi <<a href="mailto:Peter.Erdi@kzoo.edu" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Peter.Erdi@kzoo.edu</a>>; 'fis' <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" rel="noopener">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>><br>
<strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [Fis] New Discussion Session--Complexity & feedback</span>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>Dear Peter, </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Many thanks for your "pre-discussion" message. </div>
<div>My suggestion to channel such a broad approach is to divide it into two parts.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>In the first one, the more scientific-technical part (what you mention about "the historical role of the concept of feedback".)
</div>
<div>No doubt there are many points of interest there. </div>
<div>And later on, you could publish a second part about the related vision of the "big themes" and risks of our times.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I think in this way the discussion may flow with some easiness. </div>
<div>Otherwise we would be happy with whatever scheme you prefer. </div>
<div>All the best, </div>
<div>--Pedro </div>
<div> </div>
<div>El 17/10/2024 a las 22:25, Peter Erdi escribió: </div>
<blockquote>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Dear Pedro and Dear FIS Colleagues: </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Thank you for your introduction (I will make some slight corrections). </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
I will need several days to publish my formal introductory text. I would like to discuss with you my thesis:
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<strong>There is a narrow border between destruction and prosperity: to ensure reasonable growth but avoid existential risk, we must find the fine-tuned balance between positive and negative feedback.</strong>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
I hope to discuss with you both the historical role of the concept of feedback and its possible contribution to destroying or saving the world. Apologies for the self-propaganda, I have a book in press
<a id="x_m_1623905657489076922m_-8262190845165877122OWA6cc2db36-afce-b94c-f14c-c27437399ac7" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://link.springer.com/book/978303162438__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Riy2Qkh0PimXlC7qOO0L0WhMXLRyScHp5jEvb9tSlHYDn5aLZUp0aA2WOHhM9mRN-R0qECHF-ReNWlzIFN2pCEni$" target="_blank" rel="noopener">
https://link.springer.com/book/978303162438</a>4 will write a discount code, (apologies again).
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Stay tuned, </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Péter Érdi </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Henry R. Luce Professor of Complex Systems Studies </div>
<div id="x_m_1623905657489076922m_-8262190845165877122x_Signature">
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<a id="x_m_1623905657489076922m_-8262190845165877122OWA561e2cb8-e11c-8d35-b96b-9c267ea09b5f" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://blogs.kzoo.edu/perdi/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Riy2Qkh0PimXlC7qOO0L0WhMXLRyScHp5jEvb9tSlHYDn5aLZUp0aA2WOHhM9mRN-R0qECHF-ReNWlzIFIGWr1C6$" target="_blank" rel="noopener">http://blogs.kzoo.edu/perdi/</a>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<a id="x_m_1623905657489076922m_-8262190845165877122OWA83588e47-1699-ed2f-4b26-88702bb59df7" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI5wPgp7iWiUPwbXdRA-9VQ__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Riy2Qkh0PimXlC7qOO0L0WhMXLRyScHp5jEvb9tSlHYDn5aLZUp0aA2WOHhM9mRN-R0qECHF-ReNWlzIFKttEg2g$" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI5wPgp7iWiUPwbXdRA-9VQ</a>
</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style="color:currentcolor"><a id="x_m_1623905657489076922m_-8262190845165877122OWA0b722768-a808-e377-198e-bbf8c692cb09" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.kzoo.edu/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Riy2Qkh0PimXlC7qOO0L0WhMXLRyScHp5jEvb9tSlHYDn5aLZUp0aA2WOHhM9mRN-R0qECHF-ReNWlzIFLJkHx4Q$" target="_blank" rel="noopener" style="color:currentcolor; text-align:left">Kalamazoo
College</a></span> </div>
<hr style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="x_m_1623905657489076922m_-8262190845165877122x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr">
<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,0)"><strong>From:</strong> Fis
<a id="x_m_1623905657489076922m_-8262190845165877122OWAf2942f1a-331e-89eb-953a-4cd9a02a11da" href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" rel="noopener">
<fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es></a> on behalf of Pedro C. Marijuán <a id="x_m_1623905657489076922m_-8262190845165877122OWA2decf9bd-2079-5b88-153f-28b80cc0a9a1" href="mailto:pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">
<pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com></a><br>
<strong>Sent:</strong> Thursday, October 17, 2024 9:58 AM<br>
<strong>To:</strong> 'fis' <a id="x_m_1623905657489076922m_-8262190845165877122OWAacfe1866-2946-244e-b507-af2a10ec5ee0" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" rel="noopener">
<fis@listas.unizar.es></a><br>
<strong>Subject:</strong> [Fis] New Discussion Session--Complexity & feedback</span>
<div> </div>
</div>
<p style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">Dear FIS Colleagues,</p>
<p style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">We may start a new discussion session during next days.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">Title:</p>
<p style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-size:18px"><strong>Complexity and feedback: in nature, technology, and society</strong></span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">Presenter:</p>
<span style="font-size:10px"><strong>Peter Érdi</strong></span> <br>
Henry R. Luce Professor <br>
University of Kalamazoo (MI) <br>
<br>
<p style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">Greetings to all,</p>
--Pedro <br>
-------------------------------------------------------------- <br>
Pedro C. Marijuán <br>
FIS Coordination <br>
<em>FIS Archives last 10 years:</em> <br>
<a id="x_m_1623905657489076922m_-8262190845165877122OWA43069ac2-8d39-8472-41da-b298994fb24f" href="http://listas.unizar.es/pipermail/fis/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">http://listas.unizar.es/pipermail/fis/</a>
<br>
<em>List of discussion sessions last 25 years:</em> <br>
<a id="x_m_1623905657489076922m_-8262190845165877122OWA1ae66095-72f1-5d67-11fb-213a55934858" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://fis.sciforum.net/fis-discussion-sessions/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TM06qZ3D-mizico54YZw0l02tThdpy8xhdwd-35rmpmp5LM3hVvhPm6QcyJkzk8-r75hzcUI7pAEoVj7FK3iHm9j0FfC$" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://fis.sciforum.net/fis-discussion-sessions/</a>
<br>
-------------------------------------------------------------
<div id="x_m_1623905657489076922m_-8262190845165877122x_x_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2">
<br>
<table style="border-top:1px solid rgb(211,212,222)">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding-top:13px; width:55px"><a id="x_m_1623905657489076922m_-8262190845165877122OWAb0f6c781-d494-e6c0-c997-92adb76e6fbe" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TM06qZ3D-mizico54YZw0l02tThdpy8xhdwd-35rmpmp5LM3hVvhPm6QcyJkzk8-r75hzcUI7pAEoVj7FK3iHhgQVZWt$" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><img width="46" height="29" data-sanitize="blocked-image" style="width:46px; height:29px"></a></td>
<td style="line-height:18px; padding-top:12px; color:rgb(65,66,78); width:470px">
<div style="line-height:18px; font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:13px">
Libre de virus.<span style="color:rgb(68,83,234)"><a id="x_m_1623905657489076922m_-8262190845165877122OWAb7fed6a9-cdc9-f454-a3af-d200402545d7" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TM06qZ3D-mizico54YZw0l02tThdpy8xhdwd-35rmpmp5LM3hVvhPm6QcyJkzk8-r75hzcUI7pAEoVj7FK3iHhgQVZWt$" target="_blank" rel="noopener" style="color:rgb(68,83,234)">www.avast.com</a></span>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"> </p>
</div>
_______________________________________________ <br>
Fis mailing list <br>
<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" target="_blank" rel="noopener">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a>
<br>
---------- <br>
INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL <br>
<br>
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.
<br>
Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace:
<a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" target="_blank" rel="noopener">
https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a>
<br>
Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.
<br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" rel="noopener">http://listas.unizar.es</a>
<br>
---------- </div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<br>
<span class="x_gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br>
<div class="x_gmail_signature" dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:13px; border-collapse:collapse">Alex Hankey M.A. (Cantab.) PhD</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:13px; border-collapse:collapse"> (M.I.T.) DSc. (Hon Causa) </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:13px; border-collapse:collapse">Professor
Emeritus of Biology,</span>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:13px; border-collapse:collapse">MIT World Peace University, </span>
</div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:13px; border-collapse:collapse">124 Paud Road, Pune, MA 411038 </span>
</div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:13px; border-collapse:collapse">Mobile (Intn'l): +44 7710 534195 </span>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:13px; border-collapse:collapse">Mobile (India) +91 900 800 8789 </span>
</div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:13px; border-collapse:collapse">WhatsApp: as for Mobile, India</span>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-size:12.8px">_________________________ </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________ <br>
Fis mailing list <br>
<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" target="_blank" rel="noopener">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a>
<br>
---------- <br>
INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL <br>
<br>
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.
<br>
Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace:
<a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" target="_blank" rel="noopener">
https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a>
<br>
Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.
<br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" rel="noopener">http://listas.unizar.es</a>
<br>
---------- </blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________ <br>
Fis mailing list <br>
Fis@listas.unizar.es <br>
http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis <br>
---------- <br>
INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL <br>
<br>
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.
<br>
Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas
<br>
Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.
<br>
http://listas.unizar.es <br>
---------- </blockquote>
</div>
</body>
</html>