<div dir="auto"><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>Von: <strong class="gmail_sendername" dir="auto">Karl Javorszky</strong> <span dir="auto"><<a href="mailto:karl.javorszky@gmail.com">karl.javorszky@gmail.com</a>></span><br>Date: So., 16. Juni 2024, 11:28<br>Subject: Re: Re: [Fis] Fis Digest, Vol 113, Issue 8. Two Questions for Karl<br>To: Joseph Brenner <<a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>><br></div><br><br><div dir="auto">I have no idea about these fine points.<div dir="auto">The role of Mendel is to drive attention to the facts. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The interpretation of the facts is not in my remit. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">As it happens, evidence shows that the rules on commutatibility are valid on assemblies that remain inmovable. As soon as one distinguishes between predecessor and successor, one does take care not to mix them up. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">As to transformation of place into material and retour, this is established knowledge. Look up e=m*c**2. The rules that allow the translation are detailed in <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://oeis.org/A242615__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!T9bbgF40EKFZZy0iSPFOBlifjXvcG6oyGLcxj1Nk4u20ATH_llFJav1vpwSsNVZaBctk8u0NnFHdxtTMM6XgbPudA6w$" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">oeis.org/A242615</a>. There you find the basis for a BAZAAR in which any kind of property can be exchanged into any different kinds of properties, subject to limits, ranges and thresholds. The 3 main exchanges in the bazaar are: how similar, how diverse, how many. The terms of exchange are heavily indexed by the 3rd factor. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">You decide in which context you place the facts. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">We have to do here with a funny version of the Rorschach test: the apparent chaos among the numbers is not chaotic, and there is an inner relationship among the values. (in contrast to the rorschach stimuli, which we define to contain no inner substance /for the general public /). </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So, whoever says an opinion about the patterns of natural numbers, she or he will perform a coming out, by declaring that this pattern depicts e.g. Energy, or Potential or Structure or Stability or Information. The fact is that the patterns CAN be interpreted in any ways. This is the reason why one tiptoes around saying information is energy or potential or or or, because the meaning we ascribe to perception is dependent on the spectator's inner organization of contexts. </div><div dir="auto">There is an inner system of relations among the natural numbers, and there is an inner system of relations among the ideas of the spectator. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Hope you find this helpful. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Karl </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Tomorrow begins a new week. I must stay silent till midnight today. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a> <<a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>> schrieb am So., 16. Juni 2024, 10:59:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><font size="3">Dear Karl,</font><div><font size="3"><br></font></div><div><font size="3">As you know, I much appreciate the clarity with which you make your positions known. As a way of seeing how they might be made more general than I think they now are, could you please say</font></div><div><font size="3"><br></font></div><div><font size="3">1. If <i>a + b = b + a</i> and if not why not?</font></div><div><font size="3">2. Is <i>a</i> at T1 the same as <i>a </i>at T2?</font></div><div><font size="3"><br></font></div><div><font size="3">where <i>a</i> and <i>b</i> are informational entities of some kind.</font></div><div><font size="3"><br></font></div><div><font size="3">Thanks and best wishes,</font></div><div><font size="3">Joseph</font></div><div><font size="3"><br></font></div><div><font size="3"><br></font></div><div><font size="3"><br></font><blockquote style="margin-right:0px;margin-left:15px">----Message d'origine----<br>De : <a href="mailto:karl.javorszky@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">karl.javorszky@gmail.com</a><br>Date : 16/06/2024 - 00:03 (E)<br>À : <a href="mailto:itheaiss@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">itheaiss@gmail.com</a><br>Cc : <a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>Objet : Re: [Fis] Fis Digest, Vol 113, Issue 8<br><br><div dir="auto">
Very well Krassimir, thank you.
<div dir="auto">
<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
Just a little remark:
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
The tautometric concept of information is
</div>
<div dir="auto">
1. Not two permutations combined but permutations combined with partitions;
</div>
<div dir="auto">
2. Show me any of the many competing definitions of information that is based (rooted) in natural numbers;
</div>
<div dir="auto">
3. Of course one can interpret patterns of natural numbers in many ways : the patterns of natural numbers are the factual reality, and the verbal notes different people assign to the same pattern are a multitude that comes from the people being different, not from the fact that the natural numbers are such as they are.
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
Other people have also beautiful daughters and defitions, but this here tautometric daughter is not only as beautiful as all the others, but she has the advantage of being a direct descendant of the Mother of All Tautologies, her most exalted majesty of a+b=c, and this is a pedigree that is unique to her.
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
I am extremely relaxed with regard to the competition in the business of giving a good definition of information. Like Mendel knew that he says something never heard before and that what he says is true and there is no way anyone could say anything that would be truer.
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
I need to have your entry in a table
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
Kate, 240615, cycles no, their lengths (#1, #2,...)
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
in order to be able to name the properties that are to be watched.
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">
Krassimir Markov <
<a style="text-decoration:underline;color:blue" rel="noreferrer noreferrer">itheaiss@gmail.com</a>> schrieb am Sa., 15. Juni 2024, 23:41:
<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 0.8ex;border-left:1.0px rgb(204,204,204) solid;padding-left:1.0ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<font size="4">Dear Kate and Karl,<br>In his monograph, Mark Burgin reminded the story of the elephant and the blind men who study it. This also applies to the many definitions of the term "information". Each studies a separate element of the whole, and would probably end up saying like the elder of the blind, the elephant is unknowable!<br>If one tries to understand all the definitions and theories of information, one will be disappointed. Simply because many of the definitions are aphorisms to get around the problem. Such as "It's from bit", "A difference that makes a difference", etc.<br>Actually, your specialty is very close to reality, I mean "mental models" or the meaning a subject assigns to data, incorporating it into a given mental model.<br>What Karl defines as information is a rather complex construction in which two mental models (two permutations) are incorporated into a new mental model of comparison. The result of this comparison, i.e. how much the two models differ (the vector from one to the other) is "information" according to Karl.<br>But these are only one kind of mental models. You probably know many others. And they are all information! Emotional models are no exception to the general rule. Because emotions also have a certain meaning.<br>Perhaps, in your circles, you use the term "gestalt" instead of mental model, which is the same thing.<br>I hope I was useful to you.<br>With respect,<br>Krassimir</font>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">
На нд, 16.06.2024 г. в 0:25 <
<a style="text-decoration:underline;color:blue" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer">fis-request@listas.unizar.es</a>> написа:
<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.8ex;border-left:1.0px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1.0ex">
Send Fis mailing list submissions to
<br>
<a style="text-decoration:underline;color:blue" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<br>
<br> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
<br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a>
<br> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
<br>
<a style="text-decoration:underline;color:blue" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer">fis-request@listas.unizar.es</a>
<br>
<br> You can reach the person managing the list at
<br>
<a style="text-decoration:underline;color:blue" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer">fis-owner@listas.unizar.es</a>
<br>
<br> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
<br> than "Re: Contents of Fis digest..."
<br> Today's Topics:
<br>
<br> 1. Information as Sequencing and Difference (Katherine Peil Kauffman)
<br> 2. Re: Information as Sequencing and Difference (Karl Javorszky)
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>---------- Forwarded message ----------
<br>From: Katherine Peil Kauffman <
<a style="text-decoration:underline;color:blue" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer">ktpeil@outlook.com</a>>
<br>To: fis <
<a style="text-decoration:underline;color:blue" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>>, Karl Javorszky <
<a style="text-decoration:underline;color:blue" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer">karl.javorszky@gmail.com</a>>, "\"Pedro C. Marijuán\"" <
<a style="text-decoration:underline;color:blue" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer">pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com</a>>
<br>Cc:
<br>Bcc:
<br>Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2024 12:57:40 -0700
<br>Subject: [Fis] Information as Sequencing and Difference
<br>
<div>
Dear Karl (et al),
<div>
As one who often receives the fish eyes when trying to communicate such a divergent view of emotion, I can feel your frustration. But rest assured that my claim to want to understand information is legitimate. Indeed, I have spent a good deal of time researching everyone’s backstories to better understand the models on offer. Yours in particular (given the generous depth and quality of your responses), and I conducted the book sorting experiment for the third time yesterday just in case I was missing something.
</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
You have helped me realize the importance of permutational sorting and sequencing in of process of The Tao, with “sequencing” occurring as the timeless Domain 0 counterpart of the entropic Arrow of Time in Domain 1. You have also emphasized the foundational goal in AI engineering of minimizing the difference between between prediction (expected) and actual (observed) outcomes. I find these insights central to the hows and whys of living systems with emotional sentience - which are far more than prediction machines. (Some of my thoughts on this:
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0079610715001169__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XicUWaWWlWRriTTN21FGTH0xHCATELzDq-ukGcyXyKAjhe_9IdCkHdL4a3yP_0JVi0874AOsVjtDHnbxkw$" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0079610715001169</a> ) and here:
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=mvjIDwAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA144&dq=emotional*sentience*and*fractal*epistemology*2017*Katherine*Peil*Kauffman&ots=IQVlGLJsve&sig=xbv4olyNLKzqL9FiUIDfo4MBJ-Q*v=onepage&q&f=fals__;KysrKysrKysj!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XicUWaWWlWRriTTN21FGTH0xHCATELzDq-ukGcyXyKAjhe_9IdCkHdL4a3yP_0JVi0874AOsVju0HfiMwg$" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=mvjIDwAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA144&dq=emotional+sentience+and+fractal+epistemology+2017+Katherine+Peil+Kauffman&ots=IQVlGLJsve&sig=xbv4olyNLKzqL9FiUIDfo4MBJ-Q#v=onepage&q&f=fals</a> e
</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
I also find your offerings consonant with the work of Don Hoffman and Mike Levin, particularly in terms of “decorative permutations” which link repetition and symmetry with visual aesthetics.
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://medium.com/@ilakk2023/208-unveiling-beauty-in-order-a-mathematical-exploration-of-decorative-permutations-0d135cf3d706__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XicUWaWWlWRriTTN21FGTH0xHCATELzDq-ukGcyXyKAjhe_9IdCkHdL4a3yP_0JVi0874AOsVjuY24fGIw$" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://medium.com/@ilakk2023/208-unveiling-beauty-in-order-a-mathematical-exploration-of-decorative-permutations-0d135cf3d706</a>
</div>
<div>
Hoffman offers a "Markovian Dynamics of Consciousness" based upon the maths of decorative permutations that comes close to the evaluative and identity components of my Tao story, enhanced by Levin’s stuff on “the self". There’s a great conversation here between them here:
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsy8p435DqM__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XicUWaWWlWRriTTN21FGTH0xHCATELzDq-ukGcyXyKAjhe_9IdCkHdL4a3yP_0JVi0874AOsVjvr3aUTnA$" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsy8p435DqM</a>
</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
So once again, I thank you, and hope to be corrected if I’ve misrepresented your wisdom in any way. Oh, as and for getting pictures on FIS? Pedro had to “twinkle them” to make that happen. This is why I only did that once, to ease any additional burden. But indeed, pictures speak volumes.
</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
Fondly,
</div>
<div>
Kung Fu Kate
</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<br>---------- Forwarded message ----------
<br>From: Karl Javorszky <
<a style="text-decoration:underline;color:blue" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer">karl.javorszky@gmail.com</a>>
<br>To: Katherine Peil Kauffman <
<a style="text-decoration:underline;color:blue" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer">ktpeil@outlook.com</a>>
<br>Cc: "\"Pedro C. Marijuán\"" <
<a style="text-decoration:underline;color:blue" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer">pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com</a>>, fis <
<a style="text-decoration:underline;color:blue" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>>
<br>Bcc:
<br>Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2024 23:25:01 +0200
<br>Subject: Re: [Fis] Information as Sequencing and Difference
<br>
<div dir="auto">
Lovely.
<div dir="auto">
<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
You happen to be the first adept of the cult of the 12 books.
</div>
<div dir="auto">
Do tell for the record, your experiment with 12 random objects, how many cycles have been found in your setup?
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
Would you like to get a chaperone (like Vergil for Dante) as you discover the world of periodic arithmetic? Not that I would be an official explainer on matters related to place, amount, prediction, types of matches between places and amounts, but the years of playing with order cause me to believe that my comments on the matter can save efforts in inventing (recognition of) simple but useful patterns found in the process of ordering and keeping it in order.
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
If so, you can learn really basic and fundamental techniques fast, and don't have to do trial and error detours that this person already has investigated.
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
So, how many cycles, which lengths?
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">
Katherine Peil Kauffman <
<a style="text-decoration:underline;color:blue" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer">ktpeil@outlook.com</a>> schrieb am Sa., 15. Juni 2024, 21:57:
<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.8ex;border-left:1.0px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1.0ex">
<div>
Dear Karl (et al),
<div>
As one who often receives the fish eyes when trying to communicate such a divergent view of emotion, I can feel your frustration. But rest assured that my claim to want to understand information is legitimate. Indeed, I have spent a good deal of time researching everyone’s backstories to better understand the models on offer. Yours in particular (given the generous depth and quality of your responses), and I conducted the book sorting experiment for the third time yesterday just in case I was missing something.
</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
You have helped me realize the importance of permutational sorting and sequencing in of process of The Tao, with “sequencing” occurring as the timeless Domain 0 counterpart of the entropic Arrow of Time in Domain 1. You have also emphasized the foundational goal in AI engineering of minimizing the difference between between prediction (expected) and actual (observed) outcomes. I find these insights central to the hows and whys of living systems with emotional sentience - which are far more than prediction machines. (Some of my thoughts on this:
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0079610715001169__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Sg8rAh4BkyEWWsC092VLjV88StJq6VhWf8rBX00nNusObCrXshLHc48SNmGD6DoMssW7fRHEAeyVG966uR1hmtSQXos$" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0079610715001169</a> ) and here:
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=mvjIDwAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA144&dq=emotional*sentience*and*fractal*epistemology*2017*Katherine*Peil*Kauffman&ots=IQVlGLJsve&sig=xbv4olyNLKzqL9FiUIDfo4MBJ-Q*v=onepage&q&f=fals__;KysrKysrKysj!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Sg8rAh4BkyEWWsC092VLjV88StJq6VhWf8rBX00nNusObCrXshLHc48SNmGD6DoMssW7fRHEAeyVG966uR1h2mBg4Qg$" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=mvjIDwAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA144&dq=emotional+sentience+and+fractal+epistemology+2017+Katherine+Peil+Kauffman&ots=IQVlGLJsve&sig=xbv4olyNLKzqL9FiUIDfo4MBJ-Q#v=onepage&q&f=fals</a> e
</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
I also find your offerings consonant with the work of Don Hoffman and Mike Levin, particularly in terms of “decorative permutations” which link repetition and symmetry with visual aesthetics.
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://medium.com/@ilakk2023/208-unveiling-beauty-in-order-a-mathematical-exploration-of-decorative-permutations-0d135cf3d706__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Sg8rAh4BkyEWWsC092VLjV88StJq6VhWf8rBX00nNusObCrXshLHc48SNmGD6DoMssW7fRHEAeyVG966uR1hXILBnqU$" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://medium.com/@ilakk2023/208-unveiling-beauty-in-order-a-mathematical-exploration-of-decorative-permutations-0d135cf3d706</a>
</div>
<div>
Hoffman offers a "Markovian Dynamics of Consciousness" based upon the maths of decorative permutations that comes close to the evaluative and identity components of my Tao story, enhanced by Levin’s stuff on “the self". There’s a great conversation here between them here:
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsy8p435DqM__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Sg8rAh4BkyEWWsC092VLjV88StJq6VhWf8rBX00nNusObCrXshLHc48SNmGD6DoMssW7fRHEAeyVG966uR1h9XHBZJw$" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsy8p435DqM</a>
</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
So once again, I thank you, and hope to be corrected if I’ve misrepresented your wisdom in any way. Oh, as and for getting pictures on FIS? Pedro had to “twinkle them” to make that happen. This is why I only did that once, to ease any additional burden. But indeed, pictures speak volumes.
</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
Fondly,
</div>
<div>
Kung Fu Kate
</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div> _______________________________________________
<br> Fis mailing list
<br>
<a style="text-decoration:underline;color:blue" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div> _______________________________________________
<br> Fis mailing list
<br>
<a style="text-decoration:underline;color:blue" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a>
<br> ----------
<br> INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
<br>
<br> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.
<br> Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace:
<a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a>
<br> Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.
<br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es</a>
<br> ----------
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p>_______________________________________________ Fis mailing list <a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a> <a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a> ---------- INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza. Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: <a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a> Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee. <a href="http://listas.unizar.es" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es</a> ---------- </p><br></blockquote><br><p></p></div></blockquote></div>
</div></div></div>