<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Thank you all, for this exciting turn in the echo of Katherine’s topic. <div><br></div><div>With breathing the subject becomes much more interesting indeed. Particularly if we want to be in control of the lower self feelings. The quantum kind of logic might make sense in rationalizing the gain and spending of energy to perform certain tasks.</div><div><br></div><div>Alex, can you help with some good references for laymen pranayama crash courses?</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br></div><div>Plamen<br><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On May 12, 2024, at 11:08 AM, Mark Johnson <johnsonmwj1@gmail.com> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="auto">Dear Alex and Lou,<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">This seems to be much closer to the point - thank you. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Lou - I wonder if your question is a way of asking "is it possible to design a system that 'breathes'?"</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Current AI systems clearly do not. Our emotions do (As does music). </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I'm intrigued by the possibility that there might be a quantum logic of breathing - something which is homologous to the function of the autonomic nervous system?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">One aspect to this which I think is important and which gets lost in discussion about emotions is that we breathe (and feel) together, and not alone. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Best wishes</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Mark</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, 12 May 2024, 08:43 Louis Kauffman, <<a href="mailto:loukau@gmail.com">loukau@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">Dear Alex,<div>I agree with you. It is possible to design structures supported by digital systems that have their structure maintained by response to perturbations.</div><div>There are very elementary cellular automata that are like that.</div><div>Then we might have things like large language models that simulate biological systems with instability correction that verges on “experience” and “emotions”.</div><div>Such systems could report on their own internal states, as we do. But present systems are not founded in this way.</div><div>Best,</div><div>Lou<br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On May 12, 2024, at 2:03 AM, Alex Hankey <<a href="mailto:alexhankey@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">alexhankey@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times new roman,serif;font-size:large;color:#0b5394">RE: </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times new roman,serif;font-size:large;color:#0b5394">1. My take on the self-regulatory function emotion suggests that the
dual “purposes” of self-preservation and adaptive self-development
(both mediated by Negative ~ Positive categories of emotions) are rooted
in <i>ancient information signaling and
memory systems</i>.<div>2. Is any
subjectivity involved in information processing? At what point is it
purely mechanical?</div>
<div>3. And once again, where does the <i>semantic value</i> enter the picture?
Not-self pathogens? Too
hot, too cold? <br></div><div><br></div><div>None of these questions are dealt with in terms of digital information in organisms of any kind. Organisms treat them in terms of 'Experience Information', which is entirely different, being based on naturally occurring Instabilities in organism response systems, which cannot support Digital Information (for obvious reasons), and which are present to enable the organism to satisfy the requirements of Fractal Physiology. <br></div>
</div><br><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse"><span style="font-family:times new roman,serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></span>Alex Hankey M.A. (Cantab.) PhD</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse"> (M.I.T.) DSc. (Hon Causa) </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse">Professor Emeritus of Biology,</span><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse">
MIT World Peace University, </span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse">124 Paud Road, Pune, MA 411038 </span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse">Mobile (Intn'l): +44 7710 534195 </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse"></span><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse">Mobile (India) +91 900 800 8789 </span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse">WhatsApp: as for Mobile, India</span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="font-size:12.8px">_________________________</div></span></div></div></div></div></div>
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