<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Тhank you, Katherine, and all for your diligent questions, opinions and responses to this very rich and exciting topic. I only wish to point to a 2022 TED talk by Keely Muscatell<div><br></div><div><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://t.ted.com/eG9fROQ__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Upt58-ZGH4cZhuLuvMfPnYyxQbmDPqShjD84M2qFY2nINxjo0fEjYtH7IK7xqKciaJni1_tv4fYR88BTPgTIE-jzKspa$">http://t.ted.com/eG9fROQ</a><br><div><br></div><div>I just heard that may induce some thoughts in you. Here is the short reference if you can access it: <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ted-conferences_if-youre-feeling-a-little-down-or-distant-activity-7189733732340178945-5hpS?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Upt58-ZGH4cZhuLuvMfPnYyxQbmDPqShjD84M2qFY2nINxjo0fEjYtH7IK7xqKciaJni1_tv4fYR88BTPgTIE3qVm7uQ$">https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ted-conferences_if-youre-feeling-a-little-down-or-distant-activity-7189733732340178945-5hpS?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios</a><div><br></div><div>I did not know that I must have had an intact immune system when wishing to stay home far from the worries of the day. I also did not know that all this had to do with the feeling of depression. If so, then bad feelings must not be so bad. They protect you. Interesting. Am I correct in my induction? </div><div><br></div><div>Best, </div><div><br></div><div>Plamen</div><div><br><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Apr 27, 2024, at 1:37 AM, Katherine Peil Kauffman <ktpeil@outlook.com> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
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<!--StartFragment--><p class="MsoNormal">Dear FIS community,<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for trying on my Tao framework for size and kicking
off the discussion. <o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b class="">Karl</b>: You have introduced me to a whole new realm,
thank you. A general comment is that your points on sorting and grouping
(cycles, liaisons, and information) are all highly relevant to the patterned
information in what I call Domain 0. I hope we can find common language as it
concerns your natural primitives and my fundamental semantic information bit, if
we are to bridge from quantity (and position) to <i class="">quality</i> (and position).
Perhaps a fruitful start might be the lower five through which animals assemble
their mental cartography? So much more to say, but thank you for the education
your sorting experiment and papers provide.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b class="">Eric</b>: I’d love to hear what you have to say about the
dimensional architecture of Kantian Wholes, as that structural, operational,
and informational closure is central to the organization of living systems – at
every level of scale. Apologies for jumping topics – I get that a lot from Stu
too (and indeed I chalk it up to hemispheric lateralization), but my intent was
to offer <i class="">examples</i> of my use of the Tao to tether to both personal experience
and various literature across disciplines. As for sitting on a mountain (versus
emotionally informed acting in the world), you crack me up. But I do hope you will
consider the binaries I mentioned and how appear in your personal experiences.
Your earlier points about complex emotions and sociality (experienced in Domain
1), for example, flow from the dual
structure of identity rooted in dance of wholes~parts from Domain 0. Yet, when
we distinguish <i class="">self</i> from <i class="">other</i> in a rigid way, (or worse, us
versus them tribalism), autopilot negative emotional defenses and conflict are
predictable. Think of having a lovely picnic with your significant other (up on
that mountain). Everything is flowing, loving and the “we” feeling between you is
palpable. Then your partner suddenly says something disrespectful, and boom –
just like that – anger rears its head and your identity shifts to purely “me”.
This lies at the core of why both selfishness and selflessness are unbalanced dysregulated
self-states.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b class="">Joe: </b>I’d love to hear more about setting a Kantian
Whole in motion. Do you mean the dyamics at each level within a Kantian Whole?
Or between the Whole and its local environment? Something else? As for the nitty
gritty of how one gets from the complements in electromagnetism to the binary
feelings we experience, you are right it takes a deep dive – as well taking quantum
biology at face value. Personally, I suspect there are aspects of the electromagnetic
force that may divide cleanly into Domains 0 and 1, but my assumption about
creative interactions between them are rooted in particles like <br class="">
<i class="">anyons</i> <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anyon__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XNLxpQ5MpBeagI_SS_MahGSDa0_2lZ485q4vOZwfhfolJtNiFS0mMSTn6ht1dohIv0twYTlHCyrSn1tgxQ$" class="">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anyon</a>
that can behave as either fermions or bosons, in <i class="">altermagnetism</i><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://journals.aps.org/prx/pdf/10.1103/PhysRevX.12.040501__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XNLxpQ5MpBeagI_SS_MahGSDa0_2lZ485q4vOZwfhfolJtNiFS0mMSTn6ht1dohIv0twYTlHCyppIiijuA$" class="">https://journals.aps.org/prx/pdf/10.1103/PhysRevX.12.040501</a>
or <i class="">liquid-liquid</i> phase transitions <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0927796X23000487__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XNLxpQ5MpBeagI_SS_MahGSDa0_2lZ485q4vOZwfhfolJtNiFS0mMSTn6ht1dohIv0twYTlHCyoIzsM3wA$" class="">https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0927796X23000487</a>
.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal">Please tell me more about your version of The Tao and your
both~neither logic, and how it might relate to the primary <i class="">self-not-self</i>
comparisons in the self-regulatory mechanisms I mentioned. (I hear hints of
Terry Deacon’s incompleteness, that is somewhat captured by the idea of
possibles that do not yet exist.) Is it something like the universal NAND gate?
And thank you for the offer of luck, I will take it. For mindless
self-destruction is the predictable outcome of ignorance regarding the
self-regulatory function of emotion. <o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b class="">Gordana: </b>Thank you for pointing out the ubiquity of natural
computation, and for the updated view of algorithms – as open and creative. (I’ll
share that with Stu!) I’d like to hear more about super-recursive algorithms, their
role (if any) in the development of mind, and any other sage advice you might
offer. <o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal">With gratitude and kindred affection,<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal">Kate Kauffman<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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