<div dir="ltr"><div><pre class="gmail-tw-data-text gmail-tw-text-large gmail-tw-ta" id="gmail-tw-target-text" aria-label="Testo tradotto" dir="ltr" style="font-size:28px;line-height:36px;background-color:rgb(248,249,250);border:none;padding:2px 0.14em 2px 0px;font-family:inherit;overflow:hidden;width:270px;color:rgb(31,31,31)"><span class="gmail-Y2IQFc" lang="en">Dearest Pedro.
a hug and a prayer of good wishes: Lord, mercy, forgiveness and pity
your will be done.
Francis</span></pre></div><div><br></div>Carissimo Pedro.<div>un abbraccio e una preghiera augurale: Signore, misericordia, perdono e pietà</div><div>sia fatta la tua volontà.</div><div>Francesco</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno dom 14 apr 2024 alle ore 11:58 Pedro C. Marijuán <<a href="mailto:pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com" target="_blank">pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com</a>> ha scritto:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>Dear All,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am coping with a sudden medical
circumstance in my family. During some time I might rather
disconnected.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It is important that all FISers
maintain the maximum of 3 messages per week. Please!<br>
</div>
<div>For the new parties, the counting of
messages starts on Monday and ends in Sunday (international
business week).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My best wishes to all of you,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>--Pedro<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>El 13/04/2024 a las 10:01, Christophe
Menant escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US">Dear Kate,
<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US">Thanks for your answer to our comments that
allows interesting overview and synergy on different
perspectives.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US">Let me just add a brief comment about your
“fundamental semantic information bit” that could be related
to “binary good or bad feeling” by meaning generation.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US">Good or bad feeling can be related to basic
constraint satisfaction (stay alive, limit anxiety, look for
happiness…). And the “fundamental semantic information bit”
can be the meaning generated by the organism to trigger
actions (physical or mental) leading to constraint
satisfaction.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US">If you are interested there is a short paper
summarizing that at
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://philpapers.org/rec/MENITA-7__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UJIeLe2_kaEJ3FepzdpsTvPaLzot4Xqm_MNyH1sZ5CCjAJBCYDNPJwCjrmGLp3t8i3jZvNxk2SO0kSHC5OgOk-dnorJa2RGz$" target="_blank">https://philpapers.org/rec/MENITA-7</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">All the
best
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Christophe<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">De :</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Fis
<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank"><fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es></a>
<b>De la part de</b> Katherine Peil Kauffman<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> vendredi 12 avril 2024 23:51<br>
<b>À :</b> <a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>
<b>Objet :</b> [Fis] First Author Response on Emotional
Sentience<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear
FIS Community,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Please
forgive my delayed response as I’ve been out-of-state due to a
family medical emergency. But that situation is stable now,
and I can give this discussion the attention it deserves.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’d
like to thank everyone for such engaging, inspiring, and
compelling comments and questions. It’s a pleasure to
experience each personalized offering, and an honor to embrace
the many strands of focus, interest, and previous exploration
they represent. I see myriad overlaps with the core idea: That
emotion serves as the inaugural “self-regulatory” sensory
system in all living creatures, an outgrowth of the earliest
forms of sensory-motor control, genetic, epigenetic, and
immune regulation. Subjectively, it provides a uniquely
identity-relevant stream of information and coupled
(self-correcting) behavioral actions. And so much more.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tomorrow
(or soon), I’ll offer a more general response to the
overlapping themes that have emerged, and within a framework
that better describes the underlying metaphysic of my
approach. But for today, I’d like to briefly address each of
you, in the order received. (And if I have missed anyone,
please resend your comments to me directly.)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <b>Marcus:</b>
Great points, and yes stimulus-response behavior is central to
my model. To my mind, the “cognitive” revolution in psychology
overshadowed the importance of black-box behavioristic
principles. But we could not have learning, let alone complex
cognition, without some experience of binary pleasure and pain
(Pavlov’s original “unconditioned stimulus-response pair” –
what I call the
<i>fundamental semantic information bit</i>.) But the
soft-wired informational component of emotion does not make
sense without also understanding its hard-wired behavioral
counterpart. Also, while thermodynamics is an important bridge
between physical happenings and agentic doings, I promise not
to make that reductionist move. (What I mean by
“self-regulation” implies something akin to a Maxwellian
daemon, sensing, remembering and deciding). There is also much
to say also about exploration and wanderlust, but for now
I’ll just note that they are intrinsically rewarding because
of the positive emotional valence serves the self-regulatory
purpose of adaptive self-development – and all that it implies
in terms of physical, psychosocial, moral and spiritual human
development. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Francesco:</b>
I love your concept of emotional rationality (as a dimension
of emotional intelligence). The legacy of Cartesian dualism
sadly pits emotion against reason, when there are very deep
and biologically meaningful “emotional reasons” that have thus
far remained opaque to science. I heartily agree that we need
a new science of value, central to my mission! Please do share
what your approach. Indeed, our emotional biology delivers the
Platonic appreciation for The Good, The True and The
Beautiful, as well as clarity on Justice that can help better
inform The Legal.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Gordana:</b>
Thanks for the great article on the Sentient Cell. I’m
thrilled to see this line of thinking becoming more
mainstream. Our experience of emotion is like a course
graining of myriad layers of self-regulatory processes – at
molecular, cellular, tissue, organ, neural, mental and social
levels. While the embodied chemistry is well established, now
Levin’s work demonstrates a deeper electromagnetic layer of
stimulus and regulatory control. I will look to you as my guru
on ethics!<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Aaron:</b>
Thanks so much for your pioneering work on basal intelligence!
I’d wish I’d known about it early on. Ganti’s Chemoton model,
along Ashby’s Homeostat, were early inspirations! As were
Hume’s view on moral sentiments and Kant’s view of parts and
wholes! As an elder in this community, its an honor to engage
with you here. I look forward to sitting at your knee and
embracing your seasoned wisdom. I’ve love to discuss the role
of affect in AI, and/or its intersection with the immune
system (distress and eustress), inflammation, and placebo and
nocebo effects.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Karl</b>:
Your mathematical insights about process, sequence, and
transitive ordering resonate very deeply. While I’m hardly
math literate, I’m a closet Platonist in my appreciation for
maths as a primal language for The Book of Nature. There is
something key here about self-reference and “incongruence”
that I’d like to understand better, as well as your point
about transitive sorting. I hope my Tao process metaphor helps
you fit them in the proper place, as I see commutative as
residing in one sphere and additive in another, same with
index and sequential retrieval. Ultimately, I’d love to hear
your thoughts on Fibonacci sequences, phi (The Golden Mean)
and fractal geometry in pattern formation.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Joe:</b>
I hope to clarify what I mean by “logic” as there are entire
philosophical spheres that are foreign to me. I’m most curious
about your Predicate logic as I hear lovely consonance within
my Tao story (that I’ll share tomorrow) in your complements of
being and becoming, change and stability, internal and
external, self and not-self. Please feel free to straighten me
out (logic-wise, conceptually and linguistically) when I try
to describe the binary computational process. I need to invent
some term like “eduction” to add to deduction, induction, and
abduction – although emotion has a role in each.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Eric:</b>
Thank you for making my task easier! Your comments about the
nature and structure of identity are spot on. So too for the
significance of both
<i>attachment</i> and <i>boundaries</i> in optimal social
relations and psychosocial development. The critical –
epigenetic - development windows are key to many physiological
and psychological disturbances and lasting traumas. You are
prescient in your comments about communication as a
fundamental form of action. Learning is also a primary form of
adaptive action. Both learning and communication are what I
call “right responses’, optimal mindful creative actions that
“right oneself”- rebalance the self-world relationship - in
response to emotional experiences. As creators of culture, we
humans have been doing this for eons. They are the conscious,
intentional, cooperative “soft-wired” alternatives to
hardwired , competitive, “fight and flight” behavioral
defenses. This is where the three distinct levels of
self-regulatory information become key. Once the foundational
binary value system is embraced (a subjective link to the
criteria for natural selection), a lovely virtue ethics falls
from our emotional biology, complete with universally optimal
(self-actualizing) or deficient (self-destructive)
trajectories in both individual and social realms.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Stu:</b>
Thank you for raising the question about complex emotions such
as schadenfreude. This is most important as both the chemistry
of emotion and the hardwired behavioral impulses can be
invested in destructive activity – and hijacked by emotionally
manipulative others when the mind is not heeding the
informational component. For example, us-versus-them tribalism
is something we should have evolved away from long ago. It is
self-destructive on both personal and social levels. It is an
ideology that is not attuned to the egalitarian ecological
values of nature, as all living systems have both identity and
social dimensions of personal identity. Both a “me” and “we”
self is being regulated from bacteria, slime molds, and up to
humans, with the simple pleasure~pain semantic honoring each
equally across time and space. But with humans, our need to
bond with others is so powerful that we get a nice dopamine
hit when an “enemy” or “other” experiences pain. This is fully
a function of limited identity beliefs, but given how
emotion-driven ego defenses are forged upon our embodied
immune defense it is a predictable pitfall our emotional
illiteracy and ignorance.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Alex</b>:
Great to have you here. I agree with that Stu’s instincts are
top notch - but not second to none at our house! Haha! And
let’s not throw out the digital baby with the bathwater, as it
may be significant to your stuff on quantum criticality –
which I find to be brilliant, and hope to hear about in this
context.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Carlos</b>:
Thanks for your prescient work as well! I’ve just discovered
your model, and you’ve captured something intriguing about the
core distinction between basic and complex emotion. Indeed,
the biology of emotion has plenty of implications for the
development of AI. Your graduate student’s work on social
isolation versus early socialization in dyadic relationships
reflects some of the predictable emotional dynamics in terms
of syncing in cooperative collectives. This is one lovely
outcome of our universal preference for pursuing evermore
complex pleasure – the emergence of evermore complex, ordered
and cooperative collectives. Are you familiar with Kelso’s
coordination dynamics? Deep stuff on bodily movement and
synced behavior.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Christophe:</b>
Thanks for pointing out the roots of emotion in our primate
ancestors. The late great Franz de Waal’s iconic video of our
sense of fairness and justice – mediated by basic anger –
speaks volumes <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meiU6TxysCg__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UrOOImUqXBY73N_YX3SxR-MgIlD5jlDLtJIrMcrLro_jTeBu_7Jo9wQLOa-hmn2q_8MZ6voGEDUtTR6VYA$" target="_blank">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meiU6TxysCg</a>). As do the
differences between Chimps and Bonobos, primate social systems
arrange loosely by negative or positive emotion respectively.
But our emotional roots actually go very much deeper, with the
behaviors associated with the basic emotions observable in
mammals if not reptiles. In fact, the wonderful single-celled
creature Stentor exhibits several of these as well as
Pavlovian learning (See Dennis Bray’s Wetware), and binary
emotional signals can be traced all the way down to bacteria.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Plamen:</b>
Thanks so much for backstage suggestions and examples for
discussion. The films The Big Short and Wall Street, are
indeed great examples of the destructive dynamics of greed,
short-term profit, and a competitive, consumer and growth-only
oriented economy on a planet with finite resources. The
question of AI systems delivering therapy is huge too. Have
you met Sophia? (<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_(robot)__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UrOOImUqXBY73N_YX3SxR-MgIlD5jlDLtJIrMcrLro_jTeBu_7Jo9wQLOa-hmn2q_8MZ6voGEDVN4y8toQ$" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_(robot)</a>.
I see some benefit as a supplement to human therapy,
particularly as it concerns learning what information the
various emotions are offering, the universal needs they
represent, the personal and social strategies for meeting
them, and the optimal responses they suggest. This part can be
quite “algorithmic”. But nothing can replace the therapeutic
effects of genuine human emotional connection, the
synchronicity and improvisational serendipity of flow. (I also
thought of the new book Rural Rage, as a good example as it
parses the difference between anger, resentment and rage – and
how they can harnessed for political gain.) So many roads to
choose, so little - and precious - time. I will rely on your
judgement as the discussion unfolds.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Pedro:</b>
Thank you so much for appreciating my work and being “the man
behind the curtain”, jumping in with just the right responses
when I could not. Again, I wish I’d known about your take on
information way back in the day, your 2003 paper is still so
far ahead of its time. When this is all over, I will miss you
like Dorothy misses the Scarecrow.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Until
tomorrow or soonish,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Kate<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
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