<font size="3">Dear Kate,</font><div><font size="3"><br></font></div><div><font size="3">The quality of your exposition of phenomenological emotion, in its informational aspects, should encourage all of us to apply the best ideas we have to supporting and strengthening it. It is in this  spirit then, that I make a criticism in the area of logic, mentioned by Karl, and referred to by you twice.</font></div><div><font size="3"><i><br></i></font></div><div><font size="3"><i>Pace </i>my friend Karl, my view is that a dichotomy cannot be made between emotion as contemporary (timeless?) and action that involves temporal flow. Emotion is not a static state of some kind, any more than information is. Your view of emotion would seem to be consistent with an internal flow between two</font></div><div><font size="3">different but both complex states, one primarily emotionally colored and one or more others w,hich are less so. No dichotomy here either. There is a relation between emotion and intuition to be explored also.</font></div><div><font size="3"><br></font></div><div><font size="3">However, if your own view of emotion is something dynamic, and I believe it is, then the applicable logic cannot be binary!</font></div><div><font size="3"><br></font></div><div><font size="3">Perhaps you were seeking a characterization of emotion as soemthing "logical" in view of the prestige which standard logic still enjoys, I think. undeservedly. As followers of Pedro's initiative will remember (I hope), I have proposed an alternative to standard propositional of predicate logic that better reflects the properties and evolution of complex processes,  in which category I would hope that all readers would place emotion</font></div><div><font size="3"><br></font></div><div><font size="3">Like emotion, information is not static but involves going back and forth between complex dynamic states - being informed and not being informed. Perhaps for both emotion and information one should focus on their becoming, rather than being.</font></div><div><font size="3"><br></font></div><div><font size="3">In your work, and in that of some of the contributors to FIS, a process interpretation is possible but it has been largely latent or in my terms potentialized. It would be fantastic if the non-Boolean, non-computable aspects of emotion could help illuminate the corresponding aspects of information. I applaud the use of a term of Karl again, liaison, but what <b>kind </b>of liaisons, and what is their logic?</font></div><div><font size="3"><br></font></div><div><font size="3">Best wishes,</font></div><div><font size="3">Joseph<br></font><blockquote style="margin-right: 0px; margin-left:15px;">----Message d'origine----<br>De : karl.javorszky@gmail.com<br>Date : 08/04/2024 - 13:49 (E)<br>À : fis@listas.unizar.es<br>Objet : Re: [Fis] Emotional Sentience & Information<br><br><div dir="ltr">
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    <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT">Dear Kate and FIS,<span></span></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT">Emotional Sentience and Information 24 04 08<span></span></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT"> </span></p>
    <ol style="margin-top: 0.0cm;" start="1" type="1">
     <li class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT">Subject introduced<span></span></span></li>
    </ol>
    <p class="MsoNormal">Kate directs our attention to emotions, specifically <i><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">the informational logic</span></i><i><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;line-height: 107.0%;font-family: Arial , sans-serif;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">. <span></span></span></i></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal">Eric points out:<span style="font-size: 10.5pt;line-height: 107.0%;font-family: Arial , sans-serif;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;"></span><i><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">“…</span></i><i><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">we need a more clear definition of what do you think emotions are as related to information. … Are they a type of information?...</span></i><i><span style="line-height: 107.0%;"> a whole bunch of different concepts together …[need ] … linking….</span></i><span style="line-height: 107.0%;font-family: Arial , sans-serif;"><span></span></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal">Aaron: <i><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">“…evidence related to the evolution of various interacting forms of life … roles of biochemical mechanisms involved in processes of</span> evolution, reproduction, development, learning and interacting with the environment, including features of the environment that are products of the above relatively recent processes, such as … social constraints/influences.”<span></span></i></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">In my eyes, Kate’s concept fits well to the contribution of a young English woman colleague who discussed permutations and their role in surprisingly many fields of the world, including genetics, maybe a year ago. It is a pleasure to greet a clinical psychologist here.</span></p>
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   <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.8ex;border-left: 1.0px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left: 1.0ex;">
    <ol style="margin-top: 0.0cm;" start="2" type="1">
     <li class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">Context of emotions: general, as opposed to<span></span></span></li>
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    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">To have emotions (to be in a state of being subject of physio-chemical fundaments of thinking which state deviates in quality and/or intensity to the usual states) is a distinguishable experience and it is possible to conduct a reasonable discussion about the subject. (This is such a case where the eye can see itself.) As the definition shows, the living organism is always in a state of being emotional, only we usually discuss the extraordinary, as being contrasted to the no-news flow of status reports. <span></span></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">Neurology is embedded between physiology and psychology. It is a Black Box. Let us consider that we have found an alien contraption, left on Earth by visiting extraterrestrials, and we understand how it intakes and how it discharges what it feeds on (which can be information), but we have no idea how it senses (maybe erroneously) the well-suited situation to flirt, do business, hide or fight, etc. <span></span></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">Kate’s proposition approaches the subject in a fundamental way. Widening our perspective, we say that what we call emotion is a phenomenon that is <i>contemporary </i>while what we call action is in a temporal flow. <span></span></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">Kate directs our attention to the fact, that whatever differentiation we exercise on classifying the material substrate of the input of the brain, we mix together a cocktail which nourishes tha brain. In whichever numbering system we differentiate the constituents of the usual, normal nourishment of the brain, we end up with one maximal number for the kinds of variants that can be cooked up by the biochemical kitchen of that individual. Whether we count in liter, centiliter, mililiter or microgram per mililiter, there is an upper limit for the number of qualitative differences within a mixture. <span></span></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">We discuss here, in colloquial speech, emotions in the understanding that these are extraordinary, significant, decisive degrees of emotional charges. In a neutral view, all variants of possible emotions should be considered as a background, and the importance is not that some mixtures lead to agitations, illness or death, but rather that the interchange between emotions and actions incessantly works, except exactly in those cases, where there is too much of an emotional imbalance. <span></span></span></p>
    <ol style="margin-top: 0.0cm;" start="3" type="1">
     <li class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">The usual background<span></span></span></li>
    </ol>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">What Kate speaks about is the collection of coincidences that can be concurrently the case. For an individual to be as usual, <i>{k₁,k₂,k₃,…k_i} </i>of physiological values should be within ranges <i>{r₁,r₂,r₃,…r_i}. </i>As colloquially understood, an emotional state is diagnosed if any of <i>{k₁,k₂,k₃,…k_i} </i>is outside the ranges of <i>{r₁,r₂,r₃,…r_i}. </i>(Colloquially explained: emotions in social usage of the term: flares and ejections of the Sun, neutral usage: the activities of the Sun.)<span></span></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">Having an overall fixed numeric limit helps in understanding how the contemporary is interwoven with that has been and that which shall come. Emotions are those states of the assembly which are at the same time, a temporal cross-section. Actions are sequences of states in which everything is contemporary. (Slicing the film into very thin snapshots.)<span></span></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">Which contemporary state has evolved from which different contemporaneous state and to which state of contemporaneous coincidences will lead to, is a complicated combinatorial mechanism. Having a Grand Total means the problem is solvable.<span></span></span></p>
    <ol style="margin-top: 0.0cm;" start="4" type="1">
     <li class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">How Nature does it<span></span></span></li>
    </ol>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">Nature, bless her heart, makes use of a numerical discongruence within the counting system that makes the whole system double-focused, by a combinatorial discongruence to the tune of 3.4E-92 %, a very small extent indeed. The consequences of this small inner relative inexactitude are felt all through the system. Nature uses the fact, that if the total is known, and value of the last sudoku token is no more a question, then in a representation on the level of how many guesses till you solve the sudoku can simply do away with a whole unit and can reset the calculation in the fashion like astronomers reset to a new epoch. The same informational content with one material unit less. The exchange in the <b>bazaar </b></span><i><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">(<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://oeis.org/A242615__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TSiukTIsFgXROB4-BcSARDP-UG1cUuxj2qtOrJnue-ru9rJkt2z5alF9jgxay7m2A4Ic8gmdRDfdU2TZV3HLtMJyhYc$">oeis.org/A242615</a>)</span></i><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;"> provides the means/terms for the interchange.<span></span></span></p>
    <ol style="margin-top: 0.0cm;" start="5" type="1">
     <li class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">How we do it<span></span></span></li>
    </ol>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">Slowly and circumspectly. Even the Himalaya of convincing evidence that the Sumerian way of counting works all right will be subverted by erosion due to periodic changes. Empirical science shows how Nature does it, adapting to and within itself due to requirements posed by periodic changes. This basic technique had been discovered by some protoplasma and is solidly based in laws of physics. The transmission happens by means of synapses in Nature. That what is being transmitted has been given the name of <b>liaison</b> in a model depicting the interactions. Slowly, small insights will organize into a whole idea and on a day not so far off, one of he learned Friends will say to a different learned Friend, <span></span></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">So, this means<span></span></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">            Neurology works by using complicated truth tables, extents, frequencies, qualities;<span></span></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">            The main idea is to use two perspectives: <i>along </i>and <i>across </i>time;<span></span></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">            Using cycles from periodic changes, one has a complete catalog of all possible slices and therefore of all possible combinations of coincidences that can be contemporary;<span></span></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">            Nature has provided for us elaborate tables, on which we can measure what happens next, based on that what is now;<span></span></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">            There is a gearbox between the idea of a periodic change and such facts which make/show it possible that a periodic change is taking place. This gearbox consists of cycles;<span></span></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">            The best introduction to understand emotions and actions and non-actions is to place 12 books on one’s desk, sorted on author-title, and reorder the sequence into title-author, all the while noting the occurrence and properties of cycles. <span></span></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">Those books which are <i>in transit </i>are different to each other. Together, they constitute a logical reality which has its own rules, notwithstanding the identities of the books. Being in transit becomes a logical universe, like tourism is an industry as such. What we propose is to learn the rules of ‘transitism’ and become a competent operator like a tourism manager. Time is counted on the community of books in transit in many different ways. Nature appears to use a <i>metronome </i>cycle of 129 length which is inside/outside of a <i>folding</i> cycle, which is 128 long. <span></span></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">Thank you, Kate for introducing the subject of how a commutative assembly and a sequenced assembly interact. Due to some rigidities of the Sumerian canon, it needs parallel to it the Accadian canon, which deviates to the Sumerian in following:<span></span></span></p>
    <ol style="margin-top: 0.0cm;" start="1" type="1">
     <li class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">Limited number of units (Eddington 137)<span></span></span></li>
     <li class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">Units are individuals (pairs of</span><i><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;"> a,b</span></i><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">)<span></span></span></li>
     <li class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">Their habitat is subject to periodic changes (resortings)<span></span></span></li>
     <li class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">The movement patterns of individuals due to periodic changes draw their own geometry (serving as a spatial background)<span></span></span></li>
     <li class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">The lateral relations among elements due to being members of cycles create a system of <b>liaisons.</b><span></span></span></li>
    </ol>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;"> </span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">Thanks again<span></span></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;">Karl<span></span></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height: 107.0%;background-image: initial;background-position: initial;background-size: initial;background-repeat: initial;background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;"> </span></p>
   </blockquote>
  </div>
 </div>
</div><br></blockquote><br><p></p></div>