<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Plamen,<div class="">You are looking at the possibilities of computers and AI. This is evolutionary technology.</div><div class="">Computers indeed are an evolutionary edge of formal systems.</div><div class="">The other side of the coin, or the middle of the coin, is how we and our biology actually behave outside of </div><div class="">formal systems. There is a life outside of these mechanisms and it is from this form of life, feeling, thought that </div><div class="">the various systems that we know were and sometimes are created.</div><div class="">This becomes very important as the interfaces (that you look at in these articles) become more intimate.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We are not formal systems or even animated formal systems. It is because we are not that, that we can create them and participate in their</div><div class="">evolution. Of course I only say this last as my opinion, not as a universal truth.</div><div class="">Best,</div><div class="">Lou</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 7, 2024, at 3:34 AM, Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov <<a href="mailto:plamen.l.simeonov@gmail.com" class="">plamen.l.simeonov@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class=""><div class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(7, 55, 99);">Well said. Thank you, Catlos.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(7, 55, 99);"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(7, 55, 99);">I have one last question:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(7, 55, 99);"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(7, 55, 99);">What do you and the FIS colleagues think of this kind of outlook for evolutionary formali(n)sation?</div><div class="gmail_default" style="color: rgb(7, 55, 99);"><font face="arial, sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="color: rgb(7, 55, 99);"><p style="margin: 0px 0px 8.1px; line-height: normal;" class=""><font face="arial, sans-serif" class="">1.</font></p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 8.1px; line-height: normal;" class=""><font face="arial, sans-serif" class=""><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://news.mit.edu/2019/training-artificial-intelligence-brain-scan-0619__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SsU3-gNIFwLZgKiiAaKmhhb1-cQGJaorxvmbNO3QLa-ar2RGlYGvCeFuJBLc7vMzwA0hIWAxk5GeRtvH74S8ZtvCj4Rp$" class="">https://news.mit.edu/2019/training-artificial-intelligence-brain-scan-0619</a></font></p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 8.1px; line-height: normal;" class=""><font face="arial, sans-serif" class="">2.</font></p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 8.1px; line-height: normal;" class=""><font face="arial, sans-serif" class=""><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/05/01/1072471/brain-scans-can-translate-a-persons-thoughts-into-words/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SsU3-gNIFwLZgKiiAaKmhhb1-cQGJaorxvmbNO3QLa-ar2RGlYGvCeFuJBLc7vMzwA0hIWAxk5GeRtvH74S8ZtEGJZZW$" class="">https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/05/01/1072471/brain-scans-can-translate-a-persons-thoughts-into-words/</a></font></p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 8.1px; line-height: normal;" class=""><font face="arial, sans-serif" class="">3.</font></p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 8.1px; line-height: normal;" class=""><font face="arial, sans-serif" class=""><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.weforum.org/videos/davos-am23-ready-for-brain-transparency-english/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SsU3-gNIFwLZgKiiAaKmhhb1-cQGJaorxvmbNO3QLa-ar2RGlYGvCeFuJBLc7vMzwA0hIWAxk5GeRtvH74S8ZtSFL0yp$" class="">http://www.weforum.org/videos/davos-am23-ready-for-brain-transparency-english/</a></font></p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 8.1px; line-height: normal;" class=""><font face="arial, sans-serif" class=""><br class="gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"></font></p></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(7, 55, 99);">All the best!</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(7, 55, 99);"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(7, 55, 99);">Plamen</div><br class=""></div></div><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 7:06 PM Carlos Gershenson <<a href="mailto:cgershen@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">cgershen@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="">Dear Pedro and colleagues,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thank you very much for the lively discussions and commentaries. I have learned a lot.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I would not say these are concluding comments, as all questions remain open, but perhaps "summarizing comments".</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think that efforts to “fix” formal systems to go beyond or around their limits (<i class="">à la</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Hilbert’s program) are doomed to fail. We still need to accept them or find a better way of dealing with them. Perhaps an alternative would be not to see them as something negative, but as something we can exploit/benefit from. I mean, just hypothetically imagine if mathematics was consistent, complete, and decidable. Yes, we would have absolute truths, we could have certainty. But would we have creativity? Innovation? Serendipity? In other words, we could eliminate many problems we suffer from, but perhaps we would have many more. Even worse, perhaps we would not even be here. For how could human culture evolve in a consistent, complete, and decidable world?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Of course, this does not mean that we should abandon science or formal methods. But by acknowledging their limits, we should be able to use different narratives to explore beyond them.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best (albeit incomplete) wishes,</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;" class=""><span style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px;" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word;" class="">Carlos</div></span></div></div></div><br class=""></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">Fis mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" class="">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br class=""><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br class="">----------<br class="">INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL<br class=""><br class="">Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.<br class="">Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a><br class="">Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.<br class=""><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://listas.unizar.es</a><br class="">----------<br class=""></blockquote></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; 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