<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><br><br><div dir="ltr">I would not wonder if „preventive misinformation law“ which is being rolled out in the EU right now with prospects for the rest of the world following the CCP model develops into ahead of time prosecution in some cases based on statistical of remotely scanned brain data interpretation and pattern matching emotional anticipation of events that did not occur at all. Time will tell. </div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Mar 8, 2024, at 3:52 PM, Dai Griffiths <dai.griffiths.1@gmail.com> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Interesting links, I hope I am not too late to respond.<div>It seems to me that there is a big difference between things which are:</div><div><br></div><div>a) unsurprising</div><div><ul><li>identifying a transform of a aural stimulus that has activated a persons eardrum, where we can assume that the neural processes involved are largely the same for all individuals.</li></ul></div><div>b) Could be feasible, but which depend on details of brain processes which I do not know, or which perhaps are as yet unknown. </div><div><ul><li>identifying a memory of an aural stimulus</li><li>identifying a word just before it is vocalised (or which is conciously thought without vocalisation). </li></ul></div><div>c) Doubtful</div><div><ul><li>Interpreting the thoughts of a person as they go about their living, which might or might not lead to speech. My assumption is that the neuronal structures involved are deeply contingent on the detail of the organisms' prior interactions, and so cannot be mapped between organisms </li></ul></div><div>I may be wrong about (d), time will tell. But if I am right, then we should reserve judgment about the prospects for 'brain transparency', An encephalographic overseer might be able to see if their minion is on task, but perhaps not what they are thinking about.</div><div><br></div><div>Best</div><div>Dai</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 7 Mar 2024 at 10:36, Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov <<a href="mailto:plamen.l.simeonov@gmail.com">plamen.l.simeonov@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)"><br clear="all"></div><br><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">Well said. Thank you, Catlos.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">I have one last question:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">What do you and the FIS colleagues think of this kind of outlook for evolutionary formali(n)sation?</div><div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(7,55,99)"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(7,55,99)"><p style="margin:0px 0px 8.1px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif">1.</font></p><p style="margin:0px 0px 8.1px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://news.mit.edu/2019/training-artificial-intelligence-brain-scan-0619__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SsU3-gNIFwLZgKiiAaKmhhb1-cQGJaorxvmbNO3QLa-ar2RGlYGvCeFuJBLc7vMzwA0hIWAxk5GeRtvH74S8ZtvCj4Rp$" target="_blank">https://news.mit.edu/2019/training-artificial-intelligence-brain-scan-0619</a></font></p><p style="margin:0px 0px 8.1px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif">2.</font></p><p style="margin:0px 0px 8.1px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/05/01/1072471/brain-scans-can-translate-a-persons-thoughts-into-words/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SsU3-gNIFwLZgKiiAaKmhhb1-cQGJaorxvmbNO3QLa-ar2RGlYGvCeFuJBLc7vMzwA0hIWAxk5GeRtvH74S8ZtEGJZZW$" target="_blank">https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/05/01/1072471/brain-scans-can-translate-a-persons-thoughts-into-words/</a></font></p><p style="margin:0px 0px 8.1px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif">3.</font></p><p style="margin:0px 0px 8.1px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.weforum.org/videos/davos-am23-ready-for-brain-transparency-english/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SsU3-gNIFwLZgKiiAaKmhhb1-cQGJaorxvmbNO3QLa-ar2RGlYGvCeFuJBLc7vMzwA0hIWAxk5GeRtvH74S8ZtSFL0yp$" target="_blank">http://www.weforum.org/videos/davos-am23-ready-for-brain-transparency-english/</a></font></p><p style="margin:0px 0px 8.1px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">
<font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></p></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">All the best!</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">Plamen</div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 7:06 PM Carlos Gershenson <<a href="mailto:cgershen@gmail.com" target="_blank">cgershen@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Dear Pedro and colleagues,<div><br></div><div>Thank you very much for the lively discussions and commentaries. I have learned a lot.</div><div><br></div><div>I would not say these are concluding comments, as all questions remain open, but perhaps "summarizing comments".</div><div><br></div><div>I think that efforts to “fix” formal systems to go beyond or around their limits (<i>à la</i> Hilbert’s program) are doomed to fail. We still need to accept them or find a better way of dealing with them. Perhaps an alternative would be not to see them as something negative, but as something we can exploit/benefit from. I mean, just hypothetically imagine if mathematics was consistent, complete, and decidable. Yes, we would have absolute truths, we could have certainty. But would we have creativity? Innovation? Serendipity? In other words, we could eliminate many problems we suffer from, but perhaps we would have many more. Even worse, perhaps we would not even be here. For how could human culture evolve in a consistent, complete, and decidable world?</div><div><br></div><div>Of course, this does not mean that we should abandon science or formal methods. But by acknowledging their limits, we should be able to use different narratives to explore beyond them.</div><div><br></div><div>Best (albeit incomplete) wishes,</div><div><br><div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">Carlos</div></span></div></div>
</div>
<br></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
Fis mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br>
----------<br>
INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL<br>
<br>
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.<br>
Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: <a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a><br>
Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.<br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es</a><br>
----------<br>
</blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Fis mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br>
----------<br>
INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL<br>
<br>
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.<br>
Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: <a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a><br>
Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.<br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es</a><br>
----------<br>
</blockquote></div>
</div></blockquote></body></html>