<div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Checklist
2024 02 27</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Dear Colleagues,</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">We are
making big progress.</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Alex has
pointed out that the logical language needs to be updated.</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Lou
offers an open and receptive attitude of mathematics towards improvements and
updates.</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">In the
last summary, several authors address several points. For brevity, citations
have been edited, if anyone feels wronged, please correct.</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">The present
context is that we are progressing toward a rational definition of information,
and now we wish to be able to clearly distinguish information’s ‘material’, as
opposed to logical, perceptional properties. To bring clarity, sanity, reason
and order into the discussion what is information, a working model has been
evolved. The Learned Friends are all familiar with the concept, namely that a
finite automat can help understanding our problems. This finite automat is an
etalon collection of <i>136 </i>pairs of <i>(a,b)</i>, which we keep sorting and
resorting. We observe specifically the cycles that appear as linear collections
of successions. The learned friends may have ordered 12 books on their table to
deeper investigate the idea.</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Now to
the dichotomy: physical (real, factual) vs. metaphysical (logical, abstract,
ideas, plans). The tin soldiers that are our logical primitives, move according
to their belonging to cycles, in a perfectly predictable fashion. (There will
appear by its nature inevitable conflicts: these we shall discuss after we have
agreement on the vocabulary.) As we move the tin soldiers of <i>(a,b)</i> in a geometry during a reorder, we
have the sense of touching the pair of <i>(a,b)</i>.
This mental picture comes to the next to an idea of physical, real, factual, in
model building. By using our eyes and our memory, not our fingers, we foresee
the tiles that follow in patterns of tiles. On this level, we do not touch the
tin soldiers. Rather we discuss the future. The successors within a cycle are a
given. Whether they will actually come to pass, is a different question. </span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 35.4pt;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> 'latent information' exists: waiting to
be *discovered* … waiting to be *invented* as new views,</span></i></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Those members of the cycle that will follow are
comparable to this idea.</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 35.4pt;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(4,50,255)">the world as ”potential information” (in the sense
of Aristotle’s potentiality) </span></i><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></i></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Those parts of the reorder that have not yet come
to pass, are still a part of the reorder that takes place. <i> </i></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 35.4pt;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(4,50,255)">In the Aristotelian sense, potentiality is in the
world.</span></i><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></i></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Whatever
is periodic, is a reorder and decomposes into cycles.</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 35.4pt;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(4,50,255)">The real world, for Plato, is a
non-physical realm that consists of ideal forms or ideas. I think we can
safely say that the Platonic ideal world is in our heads.</span></i><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></i></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Not only in our heads. Animals can foresee dangers
and avoid such locations, in which a realization of the future would be
dangerous. If the same ability to foresee the future is at work both in my and
in a rhino’s brain, the Platonic (better: Pythagorean) idea is out there in the
world as a generality, and we both have particularities of the same thing,
built in our respective brains. </span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 35.4pt;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">So can we define a notion in which something
is not directly observed (yet) but</span></i></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 35.4pt;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">does exert some kind of “influence” in the
world before it is directly</span></i></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 35.4pt;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">embodied/perceived? Can Observers be
influenced by things they haven’t</span></i></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 35.4pt;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">yet observed (but are putting themselves in a
position to be able to</span></i></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 35.4pt;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">observe)?</span></i></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">As Pawlow has shown, imagination of a wurst has almost
the same hormonal effects as the perception of a wurst. Those members of cycles
that are yet to follow are at our disposition as something we remember. </span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 35.4pt;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Is it possible to formalize the idea of a
subtle influence</span></i></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 35.4pt;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(4,50,255)">Currently, I am not aware of such a framework to
express the contents of our heads.</span></i></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Both the tin soldiers and their maneuver paths are
in our head. We distinguish the two levels: which tin soldier is on which spot,
against: which reorder is taking place and how far is it progressed. (Using
Google on “Update on a+b=c”, presents a framework for meditations on contents
of our heads.)</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 35.4pt;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">When can you trace a causal chain back to
something that</span></i></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 35.4pt;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">*doesn’t* physically exist? do thoughts that
haven’t been thought yet</span></i></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 35.4pt;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">contribute to the shape of an agent’s
cognitive landscape?</span></i></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">The recognition of an object based on parts of the
picture is measured in the Picture Fragmentation Test. The double accounting in
the tautomat contrasts the facts on the ground (which peg is in which hole)
with the requirements of periodic changes. The term “being ready” has two
readings: 1. The cycles need to be complete, 2. The reorder needs to be
complete. A reorder consists of cycles, the cycles consist of peg-hole matches.
</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">One can formulate the question as a general one,
regarding the relations between parts and wholes. Predicting the properties of
a whole, based on properties of parts, and predicting properties of parts,
based on properties of the whole meet in the gearbox of cycles. Observe, that
in both directions of predicting, there necessarily remains in existence an
extent of unfinished business. It could be that learned friends mean this part,
if they speak about incompleteness.</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 35.4pt;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">is that what cognitive agents are -
transducers (bridges) from the latent space to</span></i></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 35.4pt;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">the physical space, which collapse or amplify
potentialities from that</span></i></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 35.4pt;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">space into our world?</span></i></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">The elements, members of the etalon collection, aka
logical primitives have manifold relations among each other. We apportion the
aggregate value of a cycle to its members, thus crediting each member with its
parts of the liens that bind members of a cycle (the “strength/length/diversity
etc. of the cycle”). Of the liens that bind each member to one cycle per
reorder, emerges a system of <b>liaisons </b>over
all reorders. The succession is an economical value, whether other liaisons
offer better liens. There is a busy marketplace called <b>bazaar </b>that utilizes a very small combinatorial deviation between
number of sequences vs groups that can be established on <i>n </i>objects (cf
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://oeis.org/A242615__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!T_F6yZHAmEYNwuadhpuecaOQMTPbj1xW2F0FaCMAWTJD_maKWQWQBCbiuuhP8zn8Q6PMpzBNZNXP4JWCS5fb5WnJtmY$">oeis.org/A242615</a>). You can barter in the bazaar eg distances against numbers or
qualities of objects.</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 35.4pt;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(4,50,255)">They surely are. They are processing actual
information on the level of language plus the potential information which can
under certain conditions become actual for an agent.</span></i><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></i></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">There is nothing magical in learning that
periodically returning states of the world are periodically returning and
therefore predictable. The ability of our brain to recognize recurrent patterns
is given (made possible, supported by) by the existence of recurrent patterns,
which are an immanent feature of a non-Sumerian symbol set. The recurrent
patterns belong to the furniture of the habitat of the logical primitives.</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 35.4pt;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(4,50,255)">But there is a potential information both in the
world and embodied in cognizing agents.</span></i></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">The same logical and numerical principles are at
work in the world and in the brain of an observer. If the observer would not
operate according to the rules of the world surrounding them, they would
immediately cease to live. Information being the extent of being otherwise than
expected, it is highly debatable whether during a natural process (eg tsunami,
earthquake, water being brought to the boil, etc.) any information is
generated. Nature does strictly that what is expected of her (she herself
expects of herself), she does not generate any information because she always
was and is and will be such as was expected based on the situation her
predecessor state has been in. </span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Hope that this catalogue helps in coming to a
common vocabulary. </span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">PS. Lou: How about writing a primer: Non-Sumerian
Algebra?</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Best wishes, till next week.</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Karl</span></p></div>