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<h1><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";font-weight:normal">Here is one possibility, proposed by
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";font-weight:normal">Christoph Adami</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";font-weight:normal">,
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";font-weight:normal">The Information Theory of Life</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";font-weight:normal">:</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";font-weight:normal"><br>
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US;font-weight:normal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-information-theory-of-life-20151119/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!W1XYr0WR-M6LRxm9VvSHcmA-X8047RkPC64J2fFIElrVHsX8PQR9o4iKpF6SEHv7Gn5Z_gh7YaiGSGb7NJ5y5j9HWo6nng$"><span lang="EN-GB"><span lang="EN-GB">https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-information-theory-of-life-20151119/</span></span></a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US;font-weight:normal"><o:p></o:p></span></h1>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="SV" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Gordana<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Fis <fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es> on behalf of Alex Hankey <alexhankey@gmail.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, 13 February 2024 at 08:42<br>
<b>To: </b>Marcus Abundis <55mrcs@gmail.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b>fis <fis@listas.unizar.es>, Carlos Gershenson <cgershen@gmail.com>, Krassimir Markov <itheaiss@gmail.com><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Fis] "express matter and energy in terms of information"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#0B5394">BUT Life and Consciousness can never be expressed 'in terms of information'.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#0B5394">At their heart lie the phenomena of critical instabilities, the physics of which make their digitisation impossible!
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#0B5394">Alex<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 at 12:51, Marcus Abundis <<a href="mailto:55mrcs@gmail.com">55mrcs@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt">Krassimir – a simple but absolutely essential question!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt">To my mind, this is T.H.E. central matter in clarifying our whole 'informatic mess'. Here is *my* take on things . . .<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt">If the whole world is indeed composed of nothing but bosons (elementary particles) and fermions (force carriers), then anything coming from the *joining* of bosons and fermions is in fact energy-matter (re
your 'matter and energy'). Further, it is exactly in 'HOW they *join*' that conveys basic 'information'. For example, if they join 'one way' we have a proton, if they join 'another way' we have a neutron. That JOINING OF ENERGY AND MATTER (energy-matter) thus
produces 'proton' and 'neutron' information, with no need for 'an observer' and with no need for 'interpretation' — it simply IS as Stuart's 'order for free' (or God's 'I am that I am!'), or at least *my* interpretation of cosmo-genesis.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt">So at this point, we now have protons, neutrons (NEW elementary energy-matter particles), and electrons (force carrier). Next, HOW protons, neutrons, and electrons JOIN tells us what type of 'atom' exists
as oxygen, iron, or . . . ALL as firmly bound energy-matter! So again, self-evident order-for-free 'information' arises — which now easily extends to molecular models of ferrous bits and bytes (computer core memory) . . . and *again* it is HOW ferrous bits
and bytes JOIN (are specifically read, now by an observer/interpreter) that conveys 'next-level information'!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt">This notion of HOW 'things' JOIN reaches across the informatic map. For example, the *specific* way of HOW nuts-and-bolts JOIN determines if we have a 747 jumbo jet, a Rolls Royce, or a pair of roller skates
— what we might call distinct informatic expressions. The same applies equally to material AND abstract (logical) realms.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt">But the problem is that we DO NOT have formally recognized energy-matter (in contrast to space-time, thank you Einstein). Why no 'formally recognized energy-matter' exists is that there are four fundamental
forces (force carrier 'types') and we are unsure of HOW the INTERACT/join . . . which means no 'information' (exists to *us* humans) on a Unified Field Theory (a Holy Grail to frame all of 'science'). Nature has no similar problem, it does not need to 'understand'
itself in order to act. We briefly touched on this 'entropic problem' in the Q&A session at the end of my IS4SI 2021 talk (you may recall?).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt">Marcus<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 10:39<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>PM Krassimir Markov <<a href="mailto:itheaiss@gmail.com" target="_blank">itheaiss@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Carlos, <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">You wrote "... express matter and energy in terms of information".<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Simple question:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">How can it be done?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Please give at least one example, for instance, to express the cheese in terms of information.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">With respect,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Krassimir<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
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INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL<br>
<br>
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.<br>
Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace:
<a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" target="_blank">
https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a><br>
Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.<br>
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----------<o:p></o:p></p>
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<br>
<span class="gmailsignatureprefix">-- </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Alex Hankey M.A. (Cantab.) PhD (M.I.T.) DSc. (Hon Causa) </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Board Member Ayushman India (<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.ayushmanindia.in__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UiKETMLX0ip75B64ybpnI25276-Yf_-_01gtIv2lnBZkLqIFAzbCPQH_BIAIiHdpbb-S6D8UImlZkMqjITkPjQ$" target="_blank">www.ayushmanindia.in</a>)<br>
Teacher Yoga Pratyahara and True Dhyana Meditation (50 years)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Professor Emeritus of Biology,<br>
MIT World Peace University, </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">124 Paud Road, Pune, MA 411038 </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">____________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/00796107/119/3__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UiKETMLX0ip75B64ybpnI25276-Yf_-_01gtIv2lnBZkLqIFAzbCPQH_BIAIiHdpbb-S6D8UImlZkMpvXD8XJw$" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155CC">2015
JPBMB Special Issue on Integral Biomathics: Life Sciences, Mathematics and Phenomenological Philosophy</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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