<div dir="auto">Let me offer a nice definition<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><u>Information</u> is the extent of being otherwise between two entities :</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><u>Context</u> are the liens (extents of cycles) that connect the two entities ;</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><u>Meaning</u> is the orientation of the information within the context relative to one or more Central Elements. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Like distance, array of distances, vector. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Karl </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Gordana Dodig Crnkovic <<a href="mailto:gordana.dodig-crnkovic@chalmers.se">gordana.dodig-crnkovic@chalmers.se</a>> schrieb am Sa., 10. Feb. 2024, 17:42:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="en-SE" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div class="m_-2905938118986149171WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="SV" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book"">Thank you, Krassimir.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="SV" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";color:black">I found a useful explanation of the term “reflection” in your paper:
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.foibg.com/ijita/vol24/ijita24-04-p01.pdf__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XmOt5pA4dA40BxguQYI1xM8xIBRA-5SChQUrzleDP8l4y1U1U8D_7jibI_mONq-wLX_TPFmD1QucOwi4CEgcq6J6DOhR8il6$" title="http://www.foibg.com/ijita/vol24/ijita24-04-p01.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">
<span style="color:#467886">http://www.foibg.com/ijita/vol24/ijita24-04-p01.pdf</span></a></span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";color:black">You say:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";color:black">“There are two types of reflections:</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";color:black">1. Reflections without meaning called DATA;</span></b><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";color:black">2. Reflections with meaning called INFORMATION.”</span></b><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book"">Best wishes,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book"">Gordana<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Krassimir Markov <<a href="mailto:itheaiss@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">itheaiss@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, 10 February 2024 at 16:28<br>
<b>To: </b>Gordana CHALMERS <<a href="mailto:gordana.dodig-crnkovic@chalmers.se" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gordana.dodig-crnkovic@chalmers.se</a>>, Marcus Abundis <<a href="mailto:55mrcs@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">55mrcs@gmail.com</a>>, "<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>" <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Fis] The new axioms<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Dear Gordana, Marcus and Colleagues,<br>
Thanks a lot for your comments on my humble post.<br>
I will reply to both of you, but I don't think now is the time to veer off into a GIT discussion. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Let's be consistent and respect Stu and Carlos by continuing the discussion on the points they raise. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">My post was exactly in this direction.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">I'll answer Markus first, because my answer has to be the size of "a book" and can't fit in one comment.<br>
<br>
Dear Markus,<br>
There are now two different printed editions of the GIT monograph, but both are bibliographic rarities. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">We hardly need to go back more than 30 years when they appeared. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">But there is a summary article from a later time that was intended to give a brief and informal account of the main ideas. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Here is a link to it<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.foibg.com/ijita/vol14/ijita14-1-p01.pdf__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XmOt5pA4dA40BxguQYI1xM8xIBRA-5SChQUrzleDP8l4y1U1U8D_7jibI_mONq-wLX_TPFmD1QucOwi4CEgcq6J6DErj4TjT$" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.foibg.com/ijita/vol14/ijita14-1-p01.pdf</a><br>
Of course, to this day there are some clarifications, but the essence of the theory has not changed.<br>
<br>
Dear Gordana,<br>
I use the term "reflection" in its classic philosophical sense. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">It is perhaps most visually illustrated by Plato in his parable of the cavemen.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Shadows on the wall! - As a popular song says.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">I have already noted in this discussion list that for me Plato provided a perfect model of the human brain. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">All we perceive are "shadows on the wall"!</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt"><br>
For convenience, I'll recall here the GIT basic definition of "reflection":</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">******</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:5.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Entity </span>
</b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:5.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">In our examination, we consider the real world as a space of entities. The entities are built by other entities, connected with relationships. The entities and relationships between them form
the internal structure of the entity they build. </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:5.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Interaction </span>
</b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:5.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Building the relationship between the entities is a result of the contact among them. During the contact, one entity impacts on the other entity and vice versa. In some cases the opposite impact
may not exist, but in general, the contact may be considered as two mutually opposite impacts which occur at the same time. The set of contacts between entities forms their interaction.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:5.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Reflection </span>
</b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:5.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">During the establishment of the contact, the impact of an entity changes temporarily or permanently the internal structure and/or functionality of the impacted entity. In other words, the realization
of the relationships between entities changes temporarily or permanently their internal structure and/or functionality at one or at few levels.
</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:5.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">The change of the structure and/or functionality of the entity, which is due to the impact of the other entity we denote with the notion “<b>reflection</b>”.
</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:5.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">The entities of the world interact continuously. It is possible, after one interaction, another may be realized. In this case, the changes received by any entity, during the first interaction,
may be reflected by the new entity. This means that the secondary (transitive) reflection exists. One special case is the external transitive self-reflection where the entity reflects itself as a secondary reflection during any external interaction. Some entities
have an opportunity of internal self-reflection. The internal self-reflection is possible only for very high levels of organization of the entities, i.e., for entities with very large and complicated structures. </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:5.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">******</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:5.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:5.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I asked ChatGPT to "understand" what I was saying. Here is the answer:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:5.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">******</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div style="border:solid #e3e3e3 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">1.</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Entity:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div style="border:solid #e3e3e3 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;margin-left:18.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">The real world is viewed as a space of entities.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Entities are constructed by other entities and are interconnected through relationships.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">The internal structure of an entity is formed by the entities and relationships that build it.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div style="border:solid #e3e3e3 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">2.</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Interaction:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div style="border:solid #e3e3e3 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;margin-left:18.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Relationships between entities result from contact between them.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Contact involves mutual impacts; one entity influences the other, and vice versa.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Contacts collectively form the interaction between entities.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div style="border:solid #e3e3e3 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">3.</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Reflection:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div style="border:solid #e3e3e3 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;margin-left:18.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">When entities interact, the impact of one entity temporarily or permanently changes the internal structure and/or functionality of the impacted entity.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">This change is termed "reflection."</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Entities continuously interact, and the changes from one interaction may be reflected in subsequent interactions.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Special cases include transitive reflection (changes from one interaction reflected in a new entity) and external transitive self-reflection (entity reflects itself during external interaction).
Some entities may also have internal self-reflection, limited to highly organized entities.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div style="border:solid #e3e3e3 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">In summary, this definition explores the dynamics of entities in the real world, emphasizing their interconnectedness through relationships, the impacts of interactions, and the resulting reflections
that alter the internal structure and functionality of entities. The concept of reflection extends to transitive reflection, external transitive self-reflection, and internal self-reflection in specific cases.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:5.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">******</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:5.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:5.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Finally, here is the main thesis:</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:5.0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
<span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">There are infinitely many reflections. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Some of them are recognized by the subject, others are not. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Those recognized by him are information for him, and the rest, not recognized - data.</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt"><br>
<br>
With respect,<br>
Krassimir</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">На сб, 10.02.2024<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>г. в 14:13 Marcus Abundis <<a href="mailto:55mrcs@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">55mrcs@gmail.com</a>> написа:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Greetings,<br>
<br>
Missing in this study of Limits of Formal Systems<span class="m_-2905938118986149171gmaildefault"> (ways of managing diverse abstractions)</span>,
<span class="m_-2905938118986149171gmaildefault">and </span>even back to Yixin’s Paradigm Shifts and to Stu’s notes, is the matter of simple-to-complex material reality. Gordana partly frames<span class="m_-2905938118986149171gmaildefault"> the</span> issue as Multi-Level Analysis (too much like Multidisciplinary
approaches?) and Dynamical approaches (differed from Agent views?)—where it is easy to agree a need for New Mathematical approaches and more.<br>
<br>
And now we have Krassimir’s (most of which I agree):<br>
< Have you asked yourself the "simple question“: "Why are there so many theories in mathematics with corresponding systems of axioms?“ ><br>
—Here, the reason is NOT mathematic or axiomatic, but Simple-to-Complex Material Reality, where HUMAN-logical gaps persist. It is our own `impoverished logic’ (a psycho-logical problem) that leaves us with mathematical issues, having failed to FIRST correctly
view the<span class="m_-2905938118986149171gmaildefault"> full</span> problem(s). If we take modeling as a discipline, one must first find a proper intuitive fit BEFORE proceeding to mathematic models—the lesson of Einstein's famous thought experiments.
<br>
<br>
PRIMALLY AXIOMATIC Simple-to-Complex Material Reality has many INNATE Material Paradigm Shifts, we imperfectly map via Logical Paradigm Shifts (re Yixin). Not until we have perfect knowledge of the cosmos and LEVEL TRANSITIONS, will `all such issues’ dissipate
(re Kant’s das Ding an sich. <br>
<br>
To debate which CURRENT mathematic v<span class="m_-2905938118986149171gmaildefault">iew</span> might be a `better tool’ (re Category Theory, etc.) is too much like `dueling pathologies’,<span class="m_-2905938118986149171gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:18.0pt"> </span></span>b<span class="m_-2905938118986149171gmaildefault">lind
to</span> our own p<span class="m_-2905938118986149171gmaildefault">ersonal</span> flaws. This all brings the Limits of Formal Systems back to a central matter of a need for New Mathematical approaches. But to imagine new approaches we must FIRST confront our own logical gaps (psych-logical
poverty). This dates back even further, long before Shannon, to Korzybski’s `confused levels of abstraction’.<br>
<br>
So when Krassimir states<br>
< thousands of articles pointing out how one formal system or another CANNOT be applied to modeling . . . But writing such articles is pointless.><br>
— It is hard to disagree, except I would start b<span class="m_-2905938118986149171gmaildefault">y</span> looking BENEATH living matter, as living matter itself cannot exist in a vacuum, always in a context
<span class="m_-2905938118986149171gmaildefault">of</span><span class="m_-2905938118986149171gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:18.0pt"> </span></span>eternal adaptations. To ignore STIPULATED adaption (adaption to what exactly? = context) as a central aspect of Simple-to-Complex Material Reality<span class="m_-2905938118986149171gmaildefault">
AND Life</span> is equally pointless. A firm grasp of e<span class="m_-2905938118986149171gmaildefault">nsuing</span> Functional Material Levels is thus an ESSENTIAL first step in confronting Limits of Formal Systems.<br>
<br>
But then, still — Krassimir — when various `axiomatic offerings’ are already known to you and us<span class="m_-2905938118986149171gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:18.0pt">,</span></span> why are we NOT critically examining those offerings . . . as part of discussing and truly
exploring <span class="m_-2905938118986149171gmaildefault">the current topic </span>Limits of Formal Systems. For example,<br>
<br>
— Kun Wu’s view (1991—earliest I can find) of subject object modeling seems to head in an interesting direction but also seems excessively complex, and essentially pantheistic.<br>
<br>
— Terry Deacon’s teleo-dynamics (2011) seems deeply flawed with a purely thermodynamic base that he initially transcribes to homeodymanics, while entirely ignoring a much broader established homeostasis roles. Theromdynamics works ONLY as a bare/incomplete
trope.<br>
<br>
— Mark Burgin’s GTI is entirely without semantic/subjective roles (per his own admission).<br>
<br>
— Stu Kauffman and his engine block coconut crusher/paper weight `thinking’ . . . well he never answered my posts, so I am unsure what to make of it. But *I* would be embarrassed by such an offering, with NO functional depth.<span class="m_-2905938118986149171gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:18.0pt">
</span></span><span class="m_-2905938118986149171gmaildefault">He also seems to repeat/encourage Terry's thermodynamic error.</span><br>
<br>
— Pedro every so often offers 10 (or so) informatic principles, but I have never seen a fully developed model. Still, I have seen enough to know he often insists it `ALL evolves around Life, and only Life’ (as *many* do in FIS) and seems to forget Life must
continually adapt to `something’.<br>
<br>
— Joe Brenner’s LIR I have also looked at and it seems hopelessly dualistic and thus cannot account even for Nature’s creativity, let alone human creativity.<br>
<br>
— Krassimir’s GIT, certainly makes very promising `sounds’, but I have never seen a fully developed model, despite many requests.<br>
<br>
— and then there is of course my own S-O modeling/Natural Informatics offering, which I will not repeat . . . and there are likely many others I have forgotten about or just never heard of.<br>
<br>
I hope this somehow helps `get the ball rolling’ in e<span class="m_-2905938118986149171gmaildefault">xploring</span> f<span class="m_-2905938118986149171gmaildefault">urther</span> *firm critical thinking* around Limits of Formal Systems<span class="m_-2905938118986149171gmaildefault"> . . . assuming that is the aim of this
session(?)</span><br>
<br>
Marcus<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Fis mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br>
----------<br>
INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL<br>
<br>
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.<br>
Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: <a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a><br>
Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.<br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es</a><br>
----------<br>
</blockquote></div>