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<p><font size="+1"><i>Messages </i></font><font size="+1"><i>to the
list </i></font><font size="+1"><i>with many other addresses
are rejected by the server. Take care, for I can re-enter them
or not, depending on my burdens... --P.</i></font><br>
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<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">Asunto:
</th>
<td>Re: Information, computation, and causality in living
systems: [Fis] Fis Digest, Vol 108, Issue 5 - Kierkegaard,
responsible free will and the meaning of the new
transition in science</td>
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<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">Fecha: </th>
<td>Thu, 18 Jan 2024 22:27:27 -0600</td>
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<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">De: </th>
<td>Louis Kauffman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:loukau@gmail.com"><loukau@gmail.com></a></td>
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<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">Para: </th>
<td>Stuart Kauffman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stukauffman@gmail.com"><stukauffman@gmail.com></a></td>
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<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">CC: </th>
<td>Carlos Gershenson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cgershen@gmail.com"><cgershen@gmail.com></a>, Gordana
Dodig-Crnkovic <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gordana.dodig-crnkovic@mdu.se"><gordana.dodig-crnkovic@mdu.se></a>,
Andrea Roli <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:andrea.roli@unibo.it"><andrea.roli@unibo.it></a>,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com">pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com"><pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com></a>, Eric Werner
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:eric.werner@oarf.org"><eric.werner@oarf.org></a>, Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:plamen.l.simeonov@gmail.com"><plamen.l.simeonov@gmail.com></a>,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch"><joe.brenner@bluewin.ch></a>,
Krassimir Markov <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:itheaiss@gmail.com"><itheaiss@gmail.com></a>, fis
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a></td>
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Dear Stu,
<div class="">Can you comment directly on the following?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Regard DNA = <W|C> where this denotes the
joining of the Watson (W) and Crick (C) strands.</div>
<div class="">The schema by which DNA replicates is that W and C
separate (partially) by enzyme action and the environment in the
cell supplies the complementary base pairs so that</div>
<div class=""><W|C> —> <W| Environment |C> —>
<W|C> <W|C> </div>
<div class="">This happens in a very complex manner particularly
since the two DNA’s are interwound and have to be separated by
topoisomerase action in order for mitosis to even begin.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Nevertheless the key to this way of replication is
that the DNA consists in complementary parts <W| and |C>
EACH OF WHICH IS THE BLUEPRINT AND CONSTRUCTOR FOR ITS
COMPLEMENTARY PAIR. Thus the DNA is a very special kind of
vonNeumann building machine that contains its own blueprint for
its own replication. It is not a universal vonNeumann machine.
It is just the right kind of machine to work in the environment
of a cell.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Of course, as if this were not fantastic enough, we
know full well that the DNA does lots more than just replicate,
and all that genetic information is being handled by </div>
<div class="">many more devices embodying molecular contiguity.</div>
<div class="">Best,</div>
<div class="">Lou</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jan 18, 2024, at 9:02 PM, Stuart Kauffman
<<a href="mailto:stukauffman@gmail.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">stukauffman@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi All,
attached is a new arXiv link to Stuart Kauffman and
Andrea Roli: “Is the emergence of life an expected phase
transition in the evolving universe?” <br
id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage" class="">
</div>
<span id="cid:1335F9E9-F74F-42CD-A8A1-FC96BB8CFF31"><IS
2 THE EMERGEGENCE OF LIFE ON ARXIV LINK.docx></span>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class=""> This version contains three tiny
mistakes that do not matter and should be fixed in a
day or two. Please see the odd part about the von
Neumann Universal Constructor and its reproduction NOT
applying to how cells reproduce. Something is weird
about “information”. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Best to All.<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jan 18, 2024, at 8:33 AM, Carlos
Gershenson <<a href="mailto:cgershen@gmail.com"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">cgershen@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta http-equiv="content-type"
content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break:
after-white-space;" class="">Dear Stu,<br
id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage" class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break:
after-white-space;" class="">
<div class="">Artificial Life has not
yet achieve <i class="">open ended
evolution</i>. </div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">This depends on how you define
open-endedness. There have been a few
workshops on OEE at ALife conferences, these
two introductions might give a flavor of the
field:</div>
<div class=""><a
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://direct.mit.edu/artl/article-abstract/25/1/1/2910/Open-Ended-Evolution-and-Open-Endedness-Editorial?redirectedFrom=fulltext__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XIKNmow1mEBFRvhr4atGvmjx4yohpJ6mG1VNoD-XQmSf8p_4iFloujhL9gBmQCBqrhK302pr2mNIf3Uv$"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://direct.mit.edu/artl/article-abstract/25/1/1/2910/Open-Ended-Evolution-and-Open-Endedness-Editorial?redirectedFrom=fulltext</a></div>
<div class=""><a
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://direct.mit.edu/artl/article-abstract/25/2/93/2927/An-Overview-of-Open-Ended-Evolution-Editorial?redirectedFrom=fulltext__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XIKNmow1mEBFRvhr4atGvmjx4yohpJ6mG1VNoD-XQmSf8p_4iFloujhL9gBmQCBqrhK302pr2jrI_Ek5$"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://direct.mit.edu/artl/article-abstract/25/2/93/2927/An-Overview-of-Open-Ended-Evolution-Editorial?redirectedFrom=fulltext</a></div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">But related to this discussion,
you might be interested in this paper from
Santiago’s PhD (I was in his thesis
committee):</div>
<div class=""><a
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://direct.mit.edu/artl/article-abstract/24/1/56/2880/Undecidability-and-Irreducibility-Conditions-for?redirectedFrom=fulltext__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XIKNmow1mEBFRvhr4atGvmjx4yohpJ6mG1VNoD-XQmSf8p_4iFloujhL9gBmQCBqrhK302pr2kvs3oNr$"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://direct.mit.edu/artl/article-abstract/24/1/56/2880/Undecidability-and-Irreducibility-Conditions-for?redirectedFrom=fulltext</a></div>
<div class="">Basically, he proved that you
need computational undecidability to have
OEE. Still, they use an example (proposed by
Chaitin) of a system that exhibits OEE.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Best wishes,</div>
</div>
<div class="">
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<div style="letter-spacing: normal;
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overflow-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break:
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style="border-collapse: separate;
border-spacing: 0px;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break:
after-white-space;" class="">Carlos</div>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
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