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<p>Dear Yixin, <br>
</p>
<p>I am getting a better understanding of what you mean by wisdom.
Thank you for your patience! <br>
</p>
<p>This morning I had some thoughts described below. <br>
</p>
<p>You state: "<font size="4" face="Times New Roman">In the context
of technical study, wisdom means the ability to define the
problem, which should be good for all humans if solved, and
intelligence means the ability to solve the problem defined by
wisdom." <br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">In mathematics and other
sciences, there is the difference between proving theorems and
discovering a theorem. Many bright mathematicians make their
name by proving theorems. Others like Gödel in his proof of the
incompleteness theorem (inherent limits of the axiomatic method)
linked together very different concepts-methods (Cantor's
diagonal method and </font><span
style="color: rgb(232, 234, 237); font-family: "Google Sans", arial, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; background-color: rgb(32, 33, 36); text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial; display: inline !important; float: none;">arithmetization</span><font
size="4" face="Times New Roman">) to come up with a wonderful
result. Proving is commonplace compared to coming up with a
concept. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Missing from the
parrot-like LLMs is true reasoning and questioning. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">However, I am not convinced
that an artificial intelligent-rational system would not be able
to formulate its own questions, create new concepts and new
method of solving its own conundrums. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Here are the other earlier
thoughts of this morning:</font></p>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<h1>Can wisdom be learned?</h1>
</div>
<ul>
<li>Artificial wisdom AW</li>
<li>Social wisdom SW</li>
<li>Artificial Social Wisdom ASW</li>
<li>Embodied AI, Embodied AW</li>
<li>Artificial Ethics AE</li>
<li>Human wisdom HW as generated by experience<br>
</li>
<ul>
<li>Rare </li>
<li>There but for the grace of God go I</li>
<li>We often cannot understand someone until are in their
shoes- experience their situation </li>
<li>Examples: Growing old, living in a different country or
culture or region, learning or knowing a different subject,
being in a war zone </li>
<li>You have to know two or more subjects to interrelate them
</li>
</ul>
<li>Artificial rationality AR</li>
<li>Understanding requires</li>
<ul>
<li>Information </li>
<ul>
<li>State </li>
<li>Intention-Strategic<br>
</li>
<li>Value - Emotional Info<br>
</li>
</ul>
<li>Operators </li>
<ul>
<li>Transform information </li>
<li>This gives the dynamics to rational thought<br>
</li>
</ul>
<li>Ability or capacities </li>
<li>Intelligence </li>
<ul>
<li>Circular?? Rational inference</li>
<li>Questioning and reasoning in self dialogue<br>
</li>
</ul>
<li>Can intelligence be learned?</li>
<ul>
<li>Seems to require basic competencies-capacities<br>
</li>
<li>Reasoning </li>
<li>Social </li>
<li>Emotional </li>
<li>Wisdom (circular)</li>
</ul>
<li>How organized is the brain?</li>
<ul>
<li>Inherent competencies </li>
<li>Modular capacities of the brain<br>
</li>
<ul>
<li>Linguistic, visual, auditory, semantic, pragmatic,
motor<br>
</li>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li>Wisdom Requires </li>
<ul>
<li>Experience</li>
<li>Capacities </li>
<li>Reasoning </li>
<ul>
<li>Dynamic</li>
<li>Self reflection </li>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</div>
<br>
<p>Hope this clarifies my thoughts somewhat. </p>
<p>In summary, I am inclined to view the possibility of Artificial
Wisdom AW as a very real possibility. It is an open question
whether the Parrot-Like-LLMs will ever achieve AW, but a hybrid
might. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Kind regards,</p>
<p>Eric<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/24/23 3:58 AM, 钟义信 wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:tencent_021232261F7B40215840F03D@qq.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Dear Eric,</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">I am also very worried
about the military uses of AI. This is an issue on technical
ethics and needs the strong cooperation between all
governments. </font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">We, as scientists and
professors, have the responsibility to promote the study of
technical ethics in AI. At the same time, we have to pay more
attentions to the technical study of AI itself.</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">I agree with you on the
characters of wisdom: fairness, kindness, love, for all
humans, for all life, and, all in all, for living and
developments of all people.</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">In the context of
technical study, wisdom means the ability to define the
problem, which should be good for all humans if solved, and
intelligence means the ability to solve the problem defined by
wisdom.</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Keeping the difference
between wisdom and intelligence mentioned above, it is
believed that intelligence can be simulated by machine whereas
wisdom cannot be simulated by machine. In other word, <u>AI
cannot be creative in the meaning of unable to define the
problem good for all humans in solved</u>. I wonder if you
agree or not.</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Best regards,</font></div>
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<h4 class="name"
style="margin:0;font-size:14px;font-weight:bold;line-height:28px;color:#000;zoom:1;">Prof.
Yixin ZHONG</h4>
<div>AI School, BUPT</div>
<div>Beijing 100876, China</div>
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<div
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px;FONT-FAMILY: Arial Narrow;padding:2px 0 2px 0;">------------------ Original ------------------</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12px;background:#efefef;padding:8px;">
<div id="menu_sender"><b>From: </b> "Eric Werner"<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:eric.werner@oarf.org"><eric.werner@oarf.org></a>;</div>
<div><b>Date: </b> Mon, Oct 23, 2023 05:33 PM</div>
<div><b>To: </b> "钟义信"<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zyx@bupt.edu.cn"><zyx@bupt.edu.cn></a>;
"fis"<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a>; <wbr></div>
<div><b>Subject: </b> Re: [Fis]回复： Fis Digest, Vol 105,
Issue 12</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div style="position:relative;">
<p> </p>
<div class="moz-text-html" lang="x-unicode">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<h1><br>
</h1>
Dear Yixin, Ma</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you all for your thoughtful contributions
Krassimir, Marcus, Pedro, Yixin. Thinking about
wisdom and human nature and AI. Recently viewing
the uses of AI in weapons systems already being
designed and produced by corporations that sell to
governments, made me hesitate about what we are
doing. We need a deep discussion about artificial
intelligence in a social industrial governmental
military context. <br>
<h1>AI in love and war</h1>
<div align="center"><i><b>We walk lightly along the
edge of a deep ravine, </b></i></div>
<div align="center"><i><b>where can be seen </b></i></div>
<div align="center"><i><b>the results of passions
played. </b></i></div>
<div align="center"><i><b>Oh, I loved too much, </b></i></div>
<div align="center"><i><b>and by such, by such </b></i></div>
<div align="center"><i><b>is happiness thrown away.</b></i></div>
<div align="center"><i><b>I had wooed not as I
should</b></i></div>
<div align="center"><i><b>a creature made of clay</b></i></div>
<div align="center"><i><b>When the angel woos the
clay </b></i></div>
<div align="center"><i><b>he'd lose his wings<br>
</b></i></div>
<div align="center"><b>at the dawning of the day</b></div>
<div align="center"><b><br>
</b></div>
<div align="center">(Adapted from a poem 'On Raglan
Road' by Patrick Kavanagh)<br>
</div>
</div>
<ul>
<li>Wisdom in the wide human sense</li>
<ul>
<li>Fairness</li>
<li>Kindness</li>
<li>Love</li>
<li>For all humans </li>
<li>For all life</li>
</ul>
<li>Military uses of AI</li>
<ul>
<li>Goal directed</li>
<li>Antagonistic</li>
<li>Cooperative</li>
<li>Destructive</li>
<li>Murderous </li>
<li>Anti-human</li>
<li>Financially motivated</li>
</ul>
<li>An AI model is like a child</li>
<ul>
<li>It can be molded to the wishes of the user</li>
<li>At the same time, it’s like a mother that
responds to every wish</li>
<li>It is an all knowing God</li>
<li>Connected to a robotic system, it can heal,
but it can also murder</li>
<li>AI is a child of humankind</li>
<li>All too human</li>
<li>A savior and genocidal</li>
</ul>
<li>What will we do?<br>
</li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>
<div class="moz-text-html" lang="x-unicode">King regards,</div>
<div class="moz-text-html" lang="x-unicode"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-text-html" lang="x-unicode">Eric</div>
<div class="moz-text-html" lang="x-unicode"><br>
<div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/22/23 9:43 AM, <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:zyx@bupt.edu.cn" moz-do-not-send="true">zyx@bupt.edu.cn</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:oulfnhm7rh8c-vg9w87-kmisn1-rza50q8pbkz38b265mwdnibl4d7p1v-eb28gdg4qgxtxzbzsc-zi819v-9d85nrf3ndnfm3kmu8-75zglub87grw-4oytqc-4f">
<div dir="auto">Dear Eric,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You proposed a number of points which are
interesting and important Thank you very much!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would like to discuss at least some of them not
now, but a few days later because my notebook was
trouble some the day before yesterday. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best wished,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yixin<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div id="hw_signature">发自我的手机</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="line-height:1.5"><br>
<br>
-------- 原始邮件 --------<br>
发件人： Eric Werner <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:eric.werner@oarf.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><eric.werner@oarf.org></a><br>
日期： 2023年10月19日周四 傍晚5:56<br>
收件人： 钟义信 <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:zyx@bupt.edu.cn" moz-do-not-send="true"><zyx@bupt.edu.cn></a>,
fis <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"
moz-do-not-send="true"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a><br>
主 题： Re: [Fis] Fis Digest, Vol 105, Issue 12<br>
<blockquote>
<div>
<p>Dear Yixin,</p>
<p>Can you be more specific what you mean by
"change the paradigm used in AI". It might help
to give a specific example. </p>
<p>*At present AI systems certainly behave as if
they are goal directed. <br>
</p>
<p>*AI systems appear to have wisdom in that they
can propose wise courses of action</p>
<p>* What do you mean by "pure formalism"? It
seems one of the powers of formalism is to
understand AI and human intelligence. <br>
</p>
<p>* It seems AI systems exhibit human-like wisdom
when they offer advice or guide the actions of a
virtual assistant or self driving car. The react
based on the circumstances and goals of the
other, at leas to an extent. <br>
</p>
<p>* Why can't a machine understand human goals
and purposes if it gains a model of those from
human data? <br>
</p>
<p>* Why can't an AI system have intentions? <br>
</p>
<p>My overall problem is understanding your
specific criticism of the present AI paradigm?
This notion seems to me to need clearer
definition. <br>
</p>
<p>How would you overcome the present AI paradigm
and what specifically is different when you want
to "change the paradigm used in AI"???</p>
<p>This is not a criticism it is a real question
in trying to understand you. At present I just
don't see the difference between the present AI
paradigm and your new AI paradigm. <br>
</p>
<p>Best wishes,</p>
<p>Eric <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 10/19/23 8:48 AM, 钟义信 wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Dear
Krassimir, Dear Eric, and Dear Colleagues,</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">The
discussion is going on well thanks to all
your efforts.</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Here
is a few points I would like to mention (or
re-mention).</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">(1)
The purpose of the "declaration on Paradigm
Change in AI" is to make an appeal for <u>change
the paradigm used in AI.</u> </font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">(2)
There may have different understanding on
the concept of paradigm. However, <u>the
concept of paradigm for a scientific
discipline has been re-defined as the
scientific world view and the associated
methodology</u> because the scientific
worldview and its methodology as a whole is
the only factor that can determine whether a
scientific discipline needs a "revolution"
(Kuhn's language).</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">(3)
The major result of "paradigm change in AI"
is <u>to change the methodology used in AI,
including the principles of "pure
formalism" and "divide and conquer"</u>.
This is because of the fact that <u>the
former principle leads to the ignoring the
meaning and value and thus leads to the
loss of understanding ability and
explaining ability</u> while <u>the
latter one leads to the loss of the
general theory for AI</u>. Note that "no
explaining ability" and "no general theory"
are the most typical and also most concerned
problems for current AI.</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">(4)
There is <u>difference between human
intelligence and human wisdom</u>. One of
the functions of human wisdom is to find the
to-be-solved problem which must be
meaningful for human purpose of improving
the living and developing. Yet, the function
of human intelligence is to solve the
problem defined by human wisdom. </font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">(5)
Human intelligence can be simulated by
machine. But human wisdom cannot be
simulated by machine because machine is
non-living beings that has no its own
purpose and cannot understand human purpose.
No purpose means no wisdom.</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">I
wonder if you agree or not. Comments are
welcome!</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Best
regards,</font></div>
<div>
<div><font size="4" face="SimSun,STSong"><br>
</font></div>
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<div
style="float:left;padding-top:35px;line-height:22px;color:#a0a0a0">
<h4
style="margin:0;font-size:14px;font-weight:bold;line-height:28px;color:#000">Prof.
Yixin ZHONG</h4>
<div>AI School, BUPT</div>
<div>Beijing 100876, China</div>
<p style="margin:0"><br>
</p>
<p
style="margin:0;line-height:22px;color:#a0a0a0"><br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<div> </div>
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<div> </div>
<div
style="font:'verdana' normal 14px;color:#000">
<div
style="font-size:12px;font-family:'arial narrow';padding:2px 0 2px 0">------------------ Original ------------------</div>
<div
style="font-size:12px;background:#efefef;padding:8px">
<div><b>From: </b> "Krassimir Markov"<a
href="mailto:itheaiss@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><itheaiss@gmail.com></a>;</div>
<div><b>Date: </b> Thu, Oct 19, 2023
03:32 AM</div>
<div><b>To: </b> "fis"<a
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"
moz-do-not-send="true"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a>;
<wbr></div>
<div><b>Subject: </b> Re: [Fis] Fis
Digest, Vol 105, Issue 12</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div style="position:relative">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Dear Yixin, Eric and FIS
colleagues,
<div>Let me present some
thoughts about </div>
<div>
<p
style="text-align:center;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'"
align="center"><b>The
“Intelligence” Paradigm</b></p>
<p
style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'">For
those who are not familiar with
the concepts of "paradigm" and
"paradigm shift", I would
recommend texts from Wikipedia
that explain it clearly enough.</p>
<p
style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'">I
myself maintain a neutral position
in the dispute between Popper and
Kuhn regarding the development of
science. Both theses have their
grounds, but at different levels
and stages. In fact, in this case,
the law of quantitative
accumulation, which leads to
qualitative changes, applies.
Obviously, in a number of cases
the paradigm shift happens in
leaps and bounds, while in others
it happens smoothly and barely
perceptibly.</p>
<p
style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'">For
example, the accumulation of
sufficient observations and
evidences regarding the shape of
the earth required a shift to a
new paradigm: from the "Earth is
flat" paradigm to the "Earth is
not flat" paradigm.</p>
<p
style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'">Sometimes
opposing paradigms can coexist,
not negating each other, but
complementing each other. For
example, this is the case with
Euclid's fifth postulate (the
parallel postulate).</p>
<p
style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'">The
postulate has long been considered
self-evident or inevitable, but no
evidence has been found.
Eventually, it was discovered that
reversing the postulate gave
valid, albeit different,
geometries. A geometry where the
parallelism postulate does not
hold is known as non-Euclidean
geometry.</p>
<p
style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'">With
regard to the paradigm of
"intelligence" we have a similar
situation. We have at least two
opposing paradigms based on two
opposing postulates.</p>
<p
style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'">The
first, let's call it the "flat
intelligence postulate", was well
articulated by Yixin in his post:</p>
<p
style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'">"Intelligence
is the ability to solve problems,
but not the ability to detect and
define problems, the latter of
which is one of the faculties of
wisdom."</p>
<p
style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'">The
second, let's call it the
"non-flat intelligence postulate",
will sound unifying: "Intelligence
is both the ability to solve
problems and the ability to detect
and define problems" (Eric), but
in different directions in the
hierarchy of intelligences (KM)".
This is how we arrive at the idea
of cybernetic systems, where there
is a controller and a controlled,
but the controller is connected to
the environment from which it
receives controlling influences
and is, in practice, both
"controller" and "controlled", but
in different aspects of the
system.</p>
<p
style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'"><span
style="line-height:115%"> </span></p>
<img
src="cid:part1.vgA3Uhqq.AHWOWU34@oarf.org" moz-do-not-send="true"
onerror="" width="472"
height="359"><br>
<p
style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'"><span
style="line-height:115%"> </span></p>
<p
style="text-align:center;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'"
align="center"><span
style="line-height:115%"></span><span
style="line-height:115%"></span></p>
<p
style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'"
align="center"><br>
</p>
<p
style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'">To
be continued ...</p>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="elided-text">
<div dir="ltr">На ср, 18.10.2023 г. в
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Paradigm AI - I guess we
call it Genius (Eric Werner)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message
----------<br>
From: Eric Werner <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:eric.werner@oarf.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><eric.werner@oarf.org></a><br>
To: Karl Javorszky <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
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Cc: "钟义信" <a
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fis <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"
moz-do-not-send="true"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a><br>
Bcc: <br>
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 14:07:13 +0200<br>
Subject: Re: [Fis] Paradigm AI - I
guess we call it Genius<br>
<div>
<p>Dear Karl,</p>
<p>Thank you for bringing this
important point to my attention.
Here are some thoughts:<br>
</p>
<div>
<h1>I guess we call it Genius </h1>
</div>
<ul>
<li>Difference between generating
and understanding or reading</li>
<li>Super intelligence, requires
genius or generational
understanding</li>
<li>Generative intelligence</li>
<li>Creative intelligence</li>
<li>Compositional intelligence</li>
<li>Formative intelligence</li>
<li>Evolutional intelligence</li>
<li>Restricting, intelligence to
problem-solving, dismisses,
creative acts of composition in
science and the arts</li>
<li>Think of Heinz Kohut’s
formation of the self in
psychology versus Freudian
reactive psychology</li>
<li>It’s the difference between
discovering a theorem, and
proving the theorem</li>
<li>It’s the difference between
school-boy problem-solving, and
Newton</li>
<li>Some psychologists think of
intelligence in relationship to
testing people for their ability
to cope in educational
institutions. They want to see
if they are college material or
not. <br>
</li>
<li>With future All systems were
talking about Newton level
intelligence not college level
intelligence</li>
<li>Kantian synthetic intelligence
</li>
<li>We better be ready for that!
If not, we got some real
problems. <br>
</li>
<li>That is why making these
systems social and cooperative
is so essential.<br>
</li>
</ul>
<p>We may quickly reach a point
where the compositional creative
intelligence of artificial models
is so powerful, we will not be
able to understand them. Not just
how they work. We already don't
understand how they work now. But
their reasoning and new outputs
such, as for example, mathematical
insights. Imagine a system that
can reason and develop 2,000 years
of mathematics in a few minutes.
It is precisely this overarching
linking of knowledge that makes
for real intelligence such as that
of Leibniz or Newton. The old
school model of psychological
testing of intelligence uses a
definition of intelligence that is
to limiting for AI models. AI
models are not your evey day
student. <br>
</p>
<p>Best wishes,</p>
<p>Eric<br>
</p>
<div>On 10/18/23 12:59 PM, Karl
Javorszky wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<p>Dear Eric,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Your statement: „The
essence of general
intelligence is the ability
to not only solve an
externally given problem but
to be creative and find and
define problems.” is at
deviance to accepted
delineations of concepts in
the trade of psychology.
Rohracher [1] has defined in
1969 (and to my knowledge,
no one has disputed this
wording): “Intelligence is
the degree of efficiency [of
the CNS] while solving new
problems.”</p>
<p>What you refer to is
subsumed variously under:
creativity, alertness,
curiosity, vitality,
spontaneity. </p>
<p>There is consensus in the
epistemology of psychology
that there can exist no
final, conclusive,
all-encompassing theory of
personality (in which
intelligence and
adaptability/curiosity would
or would not be separated as
concepts), because if such
an ultimate, final, true
theory of personality would
exist, that assumption would
negate the axiomatic rule
that one can always learn
something new, at least
about himself. There is, by
definition, no end to
introspection and
philosophy. One can always
come up with a new theory of
personality and one cannot
rule out that a new theory
of personality would be more
reasonable, truer, more
conclusive than anything
that has existed before.</p>
<p>Psychologists see theories
about mind and soul in the
same way believers see their
God. It is impossible to
recognize all features of
God, let alone to insist
that one has a correct
reading.</p>
<p>So, if you decide not to
distinguish between
efficiency of solving new
problems and ability and
tendency towards finding new
problems to solve, you are
free to do so. Established
use of words splits the two
personality traits.</p>
<p>I have prepared a statement
about the key word
“otherwise”. The word is
needed to scale the
efficiency of mental
processes while solving new
problems (aka
‘intelligence’) by scaling
the diversity/similarity
properties of alternatives.
To be able to efficiently
choose between alternatives,
one needs to have
alternatives that are
different among each other.
The task is to find such
collections of symbols that
are alternatives to each
other, not by machinations
by humans, but as members of
a symbols collection. This
task is not easy to solve
while using the symbols set
in the traditional, Sumerian
ways only. One needs to
assume that symbols have
their own properties, by
their nature, immanent to
them. </p>
<p>Due to the
two-messages-per-week rule,
the contribution shall come
next week.</p>
<p>Karl</p>
<p>[1] Rohracher, H.:
Einführung in die
Psychologie, Urban &
Schwarzenberg, Wien 1951</p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="elided-text">
<div dir="ltr">Am Mi., 18. Okt.
2023 um 12:01 Uhr schrieb Eric
Werner <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:eric.werner@oarf.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><eric.werner@oarf.org></a>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb( 204 , 204 , 204 );padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Dear Yixin,</p>
<p>Thank you for you
comments! <br>
</p>
<p>To your point (2): The
essence of general
intelligence is the
ability to not only solve
an externally given
problem, but to be
creative and find and
define problems. For
example, given a knowledge
of mathematics and physics
and data to generate new
mathematics and new
insights into the nature
of the world. <br>
</p>
<p>To your point (3):
Biotechnology and AI are
somewhat independent
fields. AI can help genome
research and decoding
genomes. But once genomes
are decoded that
information can be used to
construct more general AI
models. When I say
"architecture" I meant the
architecture of the human
brain encoded in the human
genome. This architectural
information can be used to
guide the structuring of
AI models be be more
potent and more human
like. And, AI may well
help in the process of
structuring its future
version. That is what I
meant by selfreferencing.
<br>
</p>
<p>To the more general
point, formalization of
social information can
help guide the improvement
of AI models to be more
social and have greater
abilities in a AI-robot
social setting. <br>
</p>
<p>All the best,</p>
<p>Eric <br>
</p>
<div>On 10/18/23 9:16 AM,
钟义信 wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div><font size="4"
face="Times New Roman">Dear
Eric,</font></div>
<div><font size="4"
face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"
face="Times New Roman">Thank
you for the
interesting talk on
"Paradigm AI" from
which I learned a
lot. </font></div>
<div><font size="4"
face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"
face="Times New Roman">As
a discussant, may I
propose some of my
understanding.
Comments are welcome. </font></div>
<div><font size="4"
face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"
face="Times New Roman">(1)
I appreciate your idea
that saying "Physics
paradigm PPD does not
fit well with AI
paradigm" and
"Information paradigm
PID is a better fit".
This is the valuable
common basis, between
you and me, concerning
the PPD, PID and AI.</font></div>
<div><font size="4"
face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"
face="Times New Roman">(2)
How to define the
concept of
intelligence? This is
a very difficult
problem. To my own
understanding, the
following short
statement may serve as
one of the candidates:
<u>Intelligence is the
ability to solve
problem but not the
ability to find and
define problem, the
latter of which is
one of the abilities
for wisdom.</u></font></div>
<div><font size="4"
face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font></div>
<div><font size="4"
face="Times New Roman">(3)
The paradigm for AI
can be used as the
paradigm for
bio-technology with
certain
simplification and
specialization. This
judgement is not based
on their
"structure/architecture",
but based on their
"information function"
- which is the basic
function in both AI
and biotechnology,
that is to seek
opportunity for
"living (or solving
problem)" and to avoid
the "danger (or
failing to problem
solving)".</font></div>
<div><font size="4"
face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"
face="Times New Roman">Once
again, comments and
criticisms are most
welcome.</font></div>
<div><font size="4"
face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"
face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"
face="Times New Roman">Best
regards,</font></div>
<div>
<div
style="font-size:14px;font-family:'verdana';color:rgb( 0 , 0 , 0 )">
<div>
<div
style="float:left;height:100px;margin:35px 10px 10px 0px;padding:0px 10px 0px 15px;border-right:1px solid rgb( 222 , 222 , 222 )">
<div
style="max-height:150px;margin:35px 0px 0px;float:left"><br>
</div>
<div
style="max-height:150px;margin:35px 0px 0px;float:left"><br>
</div>
<div
style="max-height:150px;margin:35px 0px 0px;float:left"><img
src="https://exmail.qq.com/cgi-bin/viewfile?type=logo&domain=bupt.edu.cn"
moz-do-not-send="true" onerror=""></div>
</div>
<div
style="float:left;padding-top:35px;line-height:22px;color:rgb( 160 , 160 , 160 )">
<h4
style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-weight:bold;line-height:28px;color:rgb( 0 , 0 , 0 )">Prof.
Yixin ZHONG</h4>
<div>AI School,
BUPT</div>
<div>Beijing
100876, China</div>
<p
style="margin:0px"><br>
</p>
<p
style="margin:0px;line-height:22px;color:rgb( 160 , 160 , 160 )"><br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div
style="color:rgb( 0 , 0 , 0 )">
<div
style="font-size:12px;font-family:'arial narrow';padding:2px 0px">------------------ Original ------------------</div>
<div
style="font-size:12px;background:rgb( 239 , 239 , 239 );padding:8px">
<div><b>From: </b> "Eric Werner"<a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:eric.werner@oarf.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><eric.werner@oarf.org></a>;</div>
<div><b>Date: </b> Tue,
Oct 17, 2023 02:32
AM</div>
<div><b>To: </b> "fis"<a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"
moz-do-not-send="true"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a>; </div>
<div><b>Subject: </b> [Fis]
Paradigm AI</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<p>Here are some
brief thoughts on
Paradigms and AI
by I presume was
written by Yixin
Zhong since I
cannot read
Chinese. <br>
</p>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<h1>Paradigm AI</h1>
</div>
<ul>
<li>I agree that
the physics
paradigm PPD
doesn’t fit
well with the
AI paradigm,
and that the
information
paradigm PID
is a better
fit</li>
<li>Artificial
intelligence
systems, don’t
necessarily
learn from
human beings.
In
unsupervised
learning they
learn from
data and not
from humans.</li>
<li>The problem,
and becomes
really how to
define what
intelligence
is: Which of
the following
is it?<br>
</li>
<ul>
<li>Rational
inference</li>
<li>Summarizing
large amounts
of text and
data</li>
<li>Making new
predictions
based on
scientific
theories and
available data</li>
<li>Developing
new theories
that explain
the data in
the more
succinct way,
and making new
predictions</li>
<li>Developing
new
technologies
independently
of human input</li>
<li>Planning
and executing
the actions
and intentions
of a robot</li>
<li>Having
social
intelligence</li>
<li>Being
cooperative
with a human
being in
achieving a
task </li>
<li>Interrelating
two
discipline,
such as
physics and
mathematics,
to make new
discoveries</li>
<li>Understanding,
genomes in the
way that human
beings cannot</li>
<li>Designing
new organisms
by designing
their genomes</li>
</ul>
<li>I agree with
the language
of a new
paradigm, such
as artificial
intelligence
will develop
slowly step by
step in
conjunction
with its use
-both
conceptually
and
experimentally
.</li>
<li>In a new
paradigm
entire new
language is
created as a
paradigm is
developed</li>
<li>The language
evolves in
concert with a
new ontology
suggested by
the paradigm</li>
<ul>
<li>It is an
ontology of
objects,
technologies,
actions, and
strategies</li>
</ul>
<li>What will be
particularly
interesting,
is the <b><font
size="5">linking
of the
paradigm of
artificial
intelligence
with the
paradigm of
biotechnology</font></b></li>
<ul>
<li>Biotechnology
and AI will
truly link the
human brain
with the
artificial
brain</li>
<li>The genome
of the natural
brain will be
reflected in
the
architecture
of the
artificial
brain</li>
<li>Hence by
using AI to
decode the
genome of the
natural brain,
it will be
self-reflected
in the design
of the
developing
artificial
brain </li>
<li>This will
bring
unprecedented
social and
rational
functionality
to the
artificial
brain </li>
<li>Note that
the
biotech-genome
paradigm also
is founded on
the
information
paradigm.<br>
</li>
</ul>
</ul>
</div>
<p>Thank you Yixin
Zhong for your
input and
emphasizing the
intimate
relationship of
information and AI
paradigms. <br>
</p>
<p>Best wishes,</p>
<p>Eric <br>
</p>
<div>-- <br>
<i> Dr. Eric
Werner <br>
Oxford Advanced
Research
Foundation <br>
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<div>-- <br>
<i> Dr. Eric Werner <br>
Oxford Advanced Research
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Oxford Advanced Research
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href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
Fis mailing list
<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a>
----------
INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.
Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: <a
href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a>
Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://listas.unizar.es</a>
----------
</pre>
</blockquote>
<div>-- <br>
<i> Dr. Eric Werner <br>
Oxford Advanced Research Foundation <br>
<a
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://oarf.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tp73mvJuJUMNK3m6xXu_VUCsW-Poi0CFq_XnfNau9_R6RtJ9H97j8KIdmljPVTZ5fp9ugRtDL4oKZu_gxjwG2pY$"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://oarf.org</a>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</i></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<i> Dr. Eric Werner <br>
Oxford Advanced Research Foundation <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://oarf.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!ULTdPadjetHQaFjDWHSRq3NTGl5cum0ToYkM5RPNPmDlsElQtx0BarbTaNClj9Gs3pK5uLq7CNAT1ZjBQdOJxfo$"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://oarf.org</a> <br>
<br>
<br>
</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<!--<![endif]--></includetail></div>
</blockquote>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<i>
Dr. Eric Werner <br>
Oxford Advanced Research Foundation <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://oarf.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!U6Z9SjSPXXPQE_dYNztjOD0PIXKI7DKT8_nzn-liWAXn4G_QUg1i4fvKHGFzwuH94uJe_nj6fPVMUFlws1cYm38$">https://oarf.org</a> <br>
<br>
<br>
</i></div>
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