<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:#073763">This is all correct, Lou. But I don't think that the EU is primarily interested in solving these kinds of problems.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:#073763">What we had in the past were e.g. regulations of how straight and long green cucumbers on the market should be.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:#073763">Everything is about proper standards. It does not matter that "diversity" is in all mouths. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:#073763">We also witnessed how science was raped innumerous times during the past 3 years.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:#073763"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:#073763">So, I see this kind of directives, incl. institutional top-down education, i.e. indoctrination, like the one of novel studies like CRT, pedophilia, etc. in the US schools as the wrong approach.  These alien disruption CULTures of the new world era administered by enforcement as injections to the conscious mind of presumably intelligent human beings are incompatible with the definition of intelligence per se. People do co-evolve with the environment and meanwhile many have developed high sensitivity towards fake/true information without directions from above.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:#073763">If this centralized top-down order continues, we may land in an old era that was considered as gone.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:#073763">I was witness to such "order" in my young years, but even it was not as restrictive to the free exchange of ideas and opinions as this one.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:#073763">Why this fear of "disinformation"? Only totalitarian regimes fear like that.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:#073763">History teaches. If we allow and bear that kind of policy, it won't last long until we face something like that here:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:#073763"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/ministry-of-propaganda-and-public-enlightenment__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!RqmoZnQAMCcF1FwE4yXNOky-4pwWx9fvAmQ_7iIjKssu3fBzgV4D_2qU0uvCQWnlT9G1ENx2DmmZ2DoQWDl2zViQv_Et$">https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/ministry-of-propaganda-and-public-enlightenment</a><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:#073763"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:#073763">Best,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:#073763"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:#073763">Plamen</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:#073763"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:#073763"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 9:47 AM Louis Kauffman <<a href="mailto:loukau@gmail.com">loukau@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">In scientific communities, evolving criteria for acceptable information goes on all the time and is<div>a marker for freedom of thought, not for censorship. At the same time, it is the case that such communities often are caught in orthodoxies and fixed </div><div>viewpoints that require certain generations to simply die out to be rectified. We make progress in scientific knowing by having evolving criteria for </div><div>acceptable results. Note also that the criterion for acceptability is the independent production of those results by other researchers. Under such conditions this is the </div><div>opposite of censorship. Alas, sociological and political results are much harder to reproduce. But it is nevertheless possible to discriminate between</div><div>lies, fabrications and actual accounts of events. I say possible and to the extent that people are educated to think for themselves and to think critically, it becomes more</div><div>possible.</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Jun 5, 2023, at 2:24 AM, konstantin lidin <<a href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com" target="_blank">lidinkl@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div style="font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">the concept of disinformation is completely subjective.<div>According to Shannon, lies (noise) this is irrelevant information. Relevance is compliance with the goals of the participants in the information transfer process. Any message is relevant (truthful) if it corresponds to the picture of the world of the sender and recipient of the message. For example, a message about the existence of demons is truthful information for a believer in demons, but the same message is disinformation for an atheist.</div>Declarations on combating disinformation are a reason for the introduction of stricter censorship by EU and EC officials. Obviously, if this project is implemented, special sensors will be assigned that will determine the level of reliability of messages and punish messages that contradict the official picture of the world from EC officials<br></div><div id="m_3736637980666488241appendonsend" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"></div><hr style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline-block;width:725.1875px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline"></span><div id="m_3736637980666488241divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b><span> </span>Fis <<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>> on behalf of Michel Petitjean <<a href="mailto:petitjean.chiral@gmail.com" target="_blank">petitjean.chiral@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Sent:</b><span> </span>05 June 2023 02:58<br><b>To:</b><span> </span>fis <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>><br><b>Subject:</b><span> </span>[Fis] Information, misinformation, disinformation</font><div> </div></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt"><div>Dear All,<br>Europa declares that fighting disinformation will be legal obligation.<br>Let me ask some questions:<br>- Who is able to recognize misinformation vs. information?<br>- When misinformation is recognized, who is able to establish an<br>intentional character, so that it is disinformation indeed?<br>- Who will be in charge to do the tasks above?<br>Well, in some simple cases disinformation can be recognized.<br>Just curious, would we all agree when such of these cases is stated to<br>have occurred?<br>Better would be to massively educate people rather than to censor.<br>All my best.<br>Michel. retired scientist.<br><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://petitjeanmichel.free.fr/itoweb.petitjean.html__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TJwbbe1lwYIxShwAfVBumCbM_Z8dLAOsPYouKKMFgAbgRlJOO-Hrq6KGYRxM2jIQ9ODmmYfdvxs8TQ6e1sxrhVXvMx3y$" target="_blank">https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://petitjeanmichel.free.fr/itoweb.petitjean.html__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TJwbbe1lwYIxShwAfVBumCbM_Z8dLAOsPYouKKMFgAbgRlJOO-Hrq6KGYRxM2jIQ9ODmmYfdvxs8TQ6e1sxrhVXvMx3y$</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Fis mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br>----------<br>INFORMACIN SOBRE PROTECCIN DE DATOS DE CARCTER PERSONAL<br><br>Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.<br>Puede encontrar toda la informacin sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace:<a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" target="_blank">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a><br>Recuerde que si est suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicacin en el momento en que lo desee.<br><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es</a><br>----------<br></div></span></font></div><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline">Fis mailing list</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline">----------</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline">INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px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