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<span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Dear Pedro,<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">dear colleagues,<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">I continue to answer the questions listed in Pedro's letter.<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">2. information flows of zettabyte intensity are inherent not only to humans. A large amount of information per unit of substance is a characteristic feature of the living compared to the inanimate. Emotions
don't make us human, but emotions make us alive.<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Regarding the individual "pattern" of emotions, I would like to add the following:
<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">if we add a third dimension to the two axes of the Cartesian plane, then we will have the opportunity to depict the individual characteristics of the emotional sphere of the personality. The third dimension
is valence (attractiveness) - the subjective (individual) experience of emotions by a person. In three-dimensional space, we get a certain figure or relief, unique for each individual. This relief is also subject to changes over time. For example, a healthy
and normally developing child experiences maximum pleasure from experiencing the emotions of the "interest" group. But with age, traumas and crises can shift the point of maximum valence to other areas of the "space of emotions".<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Emotions that have the maximum valence for a particular person are called "genuine happiness (felicitas)" of that person.<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">An example of an individual relief is shown in the figure:<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="mso-bidi-language:AR-SA;mso-no-proof:yes"></span><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"><o:p> <img style="max-width: 100%;" class="w-335 h-254" size="51920" contenttype="image/jpeg" data-outlook-trace="F:1|T:1" src="cid:c9c81f50-53fe-492d-ace4-349321ea04a6"></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Unfortunately, I don't have enough data to draw conclusions about the prevalence of certain types of genuine happiness (felicitas). Some indication on this score can be obtained by analyzing the volumes of
markets on which certain emotions are sold.<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">An approximate analysis is shown in Figure 2:<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="mso-bidi-language:AR-SA;mso-no-proof:yes"></span><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"><o:p> <img style="max-width: 100%;" class="w-486 h-366" size="78994" contenttype="image/jpeg" data-outlook-trace="F:1|T:1" src="cid:3defa9f7-c223-417a-b234-ea9c3f387c37"></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Of course, the volume of sales of emotions is influenced not only by individual preferences, but also by fashion, advertising and other types of social pressure on the individual.<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Fis <fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es> on behalf of Pedro C. Marijuán <pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 11 March 2023 20:52<br>
<b>To:</b> fis@listas.unizar.es <fis@listas.unizar.es><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] emotions</font>
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<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">Dear Konstantin and FIS Colleagues,</div>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">Thanks a lot for all the ideas in your initial texts and in the responses. I would like to receive some further comments in a few issues (better if you take some time and different days to answer--also to attract other parties
to the reflection).</div>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">First, the James Russell's "circumplex model" (1980). That Cartesian diagram of emotions you present is an interesting variant of what he published involving "arousal" and "valence" as main coordinates. There has been quite a
few development and changes thereafter, with another relevant graphic model by Robert Plutchik (also in 1980!) known as the "emotion wheel", interesting to discuss the combinatoric of emotions. Unfortunately much of the later research has gone to describe
more and more emotion lists, larger and larger ones. So, it is very interesting to see your causal model related to the info flow. Although some reference to the Connectome and the role of the different areas could also be interesting (not only the synapse)
to enlarge the panorama.<br>
</div>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">Second, about the life cycle. If emotions are what makes us human (which I agree), we would see an ontogenetic development of the emotional panoply, according to age, gender, and personality, and also with cultural modifications
or channeling in the expression of emotions. This should affect, I think, the configuration of that Cartesian diagram. And in this aspect the difference between sentiments and emotions has to be clarified regarding also their "permanence" in time.
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</div>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix"><br>
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<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">Third, the relationship with rationality. Reminding System1 and System2 reaction types described by Kahneman, there could be an interesting connection with our "identity", guarded by emotions as a sort of behavioral "immune system"
that tries to preserve our fitness. So, System 1 works as an emotional system that helps to preserve our immediate maintenance in time, in an innate way (like the innate branch of our immune system), later on complemented by System 2 "adaptive" mass of experiential
learning and rationality. In this link with identity, maybe the ideas of Sheri Markose and Lou Kauffman could dovetail here.
<br>
</div>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix"><br>
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<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">And fourth, I am very interested in your application to urbanism (and other related aspects) and in general concerning the essential role of emotions in our daily life. In particular, the connection with urbanism has never been
discussed in our list.</div>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">Thanks again for your stimulating views (I leave the discussion on information metrics & dynamics for further exchanges).</div>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix"><br>
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<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">Best--Pedro<br>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix"><br>
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<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix"><br>
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<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">El 02/03/2023 a las 14:55, konstantin lidin escribió:<br>
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Thank you, Howard.
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<div class="x_x_x_ContentPasted1 x_x_ContentPasted0 x_ContentPasted0">You are absolutely right, emotions are a powerful tool for understanding a person and the world. Unfortunately, they are very little studied (much less than cognitions) and mostly remain
in the realm of the unconscious. The concept of "emotional intelligence" is often found in the scientific literature, but it most often means only the skill of recognizing basic emotions by the facial expression of the interlocutor. Obviously, this is absolutely
not enough. As a result, emotions are often perceived as some kind of "demons" that prevent a person from thinking clearly and acting rationally, and from which it is desirable to get rid of altogether.</div>
<div class="x_x_x_ContentPasted1 x_x_ContentPasted0 x_ContentPasted0">This is very strange and inconvenient, especially considering the huge role that emotions play in people's behavior and in the economy. We rarely realize how much the price of emotions occupies
in the consumer price of our everyday purchases. Here is an illustration - the price of coffee in its "natural" form, then the price of coffee preparation services, and then the price with the addition of prestige emotions (a fashion brand brings valuable
emotions from the "joy - pride" group).</div>
In our daily life, spending on emotions accounts for about 90% of all expenses, and the richer the country, the greater this share</div>
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<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Howard Bloom
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:howlbloom@aol.com"><howlbloom@aol.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 02 March 2023 09:29<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com">
lidinkl@hotmail.com</a> <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com">
<lidinkl@hotmail.com></a>; <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com">
13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com</a> <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com">
<13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">
fis@listas.unizar.es</a> <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">
<fis@listas.unizar.es></a>; <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:roy.morrison114@yahoo.com">
roy.morrison114@yahoo.com</a> <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:roy.morrison114@yahoo.com">
<roy.morrison114@yahoo.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] emotions</font>
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Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
excellent point on the importance of emotions. and on the commercial sale of emotions.
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<div>i suspect that emotions are our fastest form of information processing. in other words, they have a wisdom of their own.</div>
<div><br>
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<div>with warmth and oomph--howard<br>
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<div><font style="font-family:arial,helvetica; font-size:10pt">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: konstantin lidin <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com">
<lidinkl@hotmail.com></a><br>
To: Francesco Rizzo <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com">
<13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com></a><br>
Cc: <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a>; Roy Morrison
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:roy.morrison114@yahoo.com"><roy.morrison114@yahoo.com></a><br>
Sent: Wed, Mar 1, 2023 1:53 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Fis] emotions<br>
<br>
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Dear Francesco,
<div class="x_x_yiv2999675076ContentPasted0 x_x_yiv2999675076elementToProof">indeed, it is difficult to understand such difficult ideas from such a brief message.</div>
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<div class="x_x_yiv2999675076ContentPasted0">For my part, I can add that emotions are a very popular commodity. For example, tourism is the sale of emotions of the "interest" group. Gambling is an industry of emotions of the group "excitement, risk". Cinema
produces and sells emotions of a wide range, from "joy - pride" (comedies, family films) to "disgust" (horror and punk films), and so on. All these are market sectors with a turnover of hundreds of billions of USD per year.</div>
<div class="x_x_yiv2999675076ContentPasted0">Note also that positive emotions (for example, such a kind of "joy - pride" emotions as prestige) often make up a significant part of wages in some areas.</div>
Unfortunately, emotions are still not taken into account in most economic models.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr" id="x_x_yiv2999675076divRplyFwdMsg"><font face="Calibri,
sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Francesco Rizzo
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com"><13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com></a><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> 01 March 2023 23:49<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> konstantin lidin <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com">
<lidinkl@hotmail.com></a><br clear="none">
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a>; Roy Morrison
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:roy.morrison114@yahoo.com"><roy.morrison114@yahoo.com></a><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] emotions</font>
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<div>Dear Konstantin, </div>
<div>I would like to make the following contribution: in my new economy it is not necessary to separate humanitarian information and natural information, since I adopt a single trans-information process based on the 3 surpluses or thermodynamic, genetic and semiotic-hermeneutic
information; that is, a theory of value underlying a single piece of information, consisting in giving or taking shape, measurable in bits of entropy (in natural-rational information and in neg-entropy (in emotional-human communication). So that the flow of information
related to emotion, can give rise to what I call emo-rationality. Thank you! Do I have to apologize for my (non) simplicity?Francesco<br clear="none">
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Caro Konstantin,
<div>desidero dare il seguente contributo: nella mia economia nuova non è necessario separare l'informazione </div>
<div>umanitaria e l'informazione naturale, poiché adotto un unico processo di tras-informazione basato sui 3 </div>
<div>surplus o informazione termodinamica, genetica e semiotico-ermeneutica; cioè una teoria del valore sottesa </div>
<div>da un'unica informazione, consistente nel dare o nel prendere forma, misurabile in bit di entropia (nella </div>
<div>informazione natural-razionale e in neg-entropia (nella comu nicazione emozional-umana). Sicchè il flusso di </div>
<div>informazioni connesse all'emozione, può dar luogo a quella che io chiamo emo-ra-zionalità. </div>
<div>Grazie! Dobbo scusarmi per la mia (non) sempicità?</div>
<div>Francesco</div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="x_x_yiv2999675076x_gmail_attr">Il giorno mer 1 mar 2023 alle ore 09:11 konstantin lidin <<a href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com" data-auth="NotApplicable" shape="rect">lidinkl@hotmail.com</a>> ha scritto:<br clear="none">
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<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">the calculation of the amount of information contained in one human personality is based on the following considerations:
<div>the number of nitrogenous bases in a DNA molecule is 3.2 billion. Each base contains two bits of information. In total, the amount of information in one DNA molecule is about a gigabyte (10^9);</div>
<div>all cells of the human body are different and, therefore, the information in each cell does not coincide with the information in other cells. Therefore, the amount of information in the body needs to be multiplied by the number of cells - about 10 ^ 14;</div>
<div>the total is 10 ^ 23 bytes, that is, one hundred zettabytes. Even considering that 99% of cellular information is repeated, the amount of unique information in a living organism is zettabytes. It is the amount of information per unit of mass that is the
fundamental difference between a living organism and an inanimate one.</div>
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<div>Our model can be useful for the study of intrapsychic processes. Unfortunately, the format of a short message does not allow us to fully describe all the results obtained over twenty-five years of development of this model.</div>
<div>You are absolutely right; the human personality is complex enough that its individual fragments can experience different emotions at the same time. A person can simultaneously experience fear of a shark, tenderness and trust in it, sadness from his loneliness
in the middle of an endless ocean, and so on.</div>
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<div>The role of hormones and neurotransmitters in the movement of information through the nervous system has not been sufficiently studied. The processes occurring in the synaptic cleft are associated with the adaptation of the nervous system to the nature
of the flow of information. The balance of neurotransmitters in the synaptic cleft corresponds to the characteristics of the information flow - for example, adrenaline promotes the passage of chaotic flows (emotion "fear"), and gamma-aminobutyric acid "adjusts"
the nervous system to weak information flows (sadness).</div>
Rapid and strong changes in the balance of neurotransmitters correspond to "emotional storms", which is so characteristic of young poets...<br clear="none">
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<font face="Calibri,
sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Roy Morrison <<a href="mailto:roy.morrison114@yahoo.com" data-auth="NotApplicable" shape="rect">roy.morrison114@yahoo.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> 01 March 2023 06:54<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" data-auth="NotApplicable" shape="rect">fis@listas.unizar.es</a> <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" data-auth="NotApplicable" shape="rect">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>>; konstantin lidin <<a href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com" data-auth="NotApplicable" shape="rect">lidinkl@hotmail.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] emotions</font>
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<div dir="ltr">Konstantin</div>
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<div dir="ltr">I powerful and important take on emotions as experience of information flow. </div>
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<div dir="ltr">Really appreciate "<span style="font-family:New; text-indent:47.2667px">In turn, we understand information as a structural aspect of the existence of matter, along with the inertial aspect (substance) and the dynamic aspect (energy). We believe
that information is no less material than matter and energy. "</span></div>
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</span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:New; text-indent:47.2667px"> and</span></div>
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</span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:New; text-indent:47.2667px"><span style="text-indent:47.2667px">"The total amount of information contained on all media in all libraries, archives and other repositories of mankind is about a zettabyte (10^23 bits). About
the same amount of information contains one human personality."</span><br clear="none">
</span></div>
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<div dir="ltr"><span style="text-indent:47.2667px"><span style="text-indent:47.2667px"> From my experience as a lunatic, ok as a neurotic, the complexity of emotion is complicated by issues of what is conscious/ repressed/ unconscious.</span></span></div>
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<div dir="ltr" style="text-indent:47.2667px"><span style="text-indent:47.2667px">Your model making distinctions between Order-Chaos and Weak flow- Intense Flow does not fully explain issues of unconscious roiling repression this is driven in part by hormonal
emotional activation and repression. At the same time I recognize the common and shared emotional expression we share across species. </span><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr" style="text-indent:47.2667px">Watching video of a fisherman who saved a great white shark trapped it nets. The shark keep returning to the fishman's small boat for days. Shark rolled on her? back next to his boat so he could spoke her belly to
her great pleasure.Evolutionary we share common emotional expression and the similar brain chemicals.</div>
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<div dir="ltr" style="text-indent:47.2667px">Roy</div>
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<pre class="x_moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
Fis mailing list
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INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.
Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: <a class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a>
Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listas.unizar.es">http://listas.unizar.es</a>
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