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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Konstantin and FIS Colleagues,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Thanks a lot for all the ideas in your
initial texts and in the responses. I would like to receive some
further comments in a few issues (better if you take some time
and different days to answer--also to attract other parties to the
reflection).</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">First, the James Russell's "circumplex
model" (1980). That Cartesian diagram of emotions you present is
an interesting variant of what he published involving "arousal"
and "valence" as main coordinates. There has been quite a few
development and changes thereafter, with another relevant graphic
model by Robert Plutchik (also in 1980!) known as the "emotion
wheel", interesting to discuss the combinatoric of emotions.
Unfortunately much of the later research has gone to describe more
and more emotion lists, larger and larger ones. So, it is very
interesting to see your causal model related to the info flow.
Although some reference to the Connectome and the role of the
different areas could also be interesting (not only the synapse)
to enlarge the panorama.<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Second, about the life cycle. If
emotions are what makes us human (which I agree), we would see an
ontogenetic development of the emotional panoply, according to
age, gender, and personality, and also with cultural modifications
or channeling in the expression of emotions. This should affect, I
think, the configuration of that Cartesian diagram. And in this
aspect the difference between sentiments and emotions has to be
clarified regarding also their "permanence" in time. <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Third, the relationship with
rationality. Reminding System1 and System2 reaction types
described by Kahneman, there could be an interesting connection
with our "identity", guarded by emotions as a sort of behavioral
"immune system" that tries to preserve our fitness. So, System 1
works as an emotional system that helps to preserve our immediate
maintenance in time, in an innate way (like the innate branch of
our immune system), later on complemented by System 2 "adaptive"
mass of experiential learning and rationality. In this link with
identity, maybe the ideas of Sheri Markose and Lou Kauffman could
dovetail here. <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">And fourth, I am very interested in
your application to urbanism (and other related aspects) and in
general concerning the essential role of emotions in our daily
life. In particular, the connection with urbanism has never been
discussed in our list.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Thanks again for your stimulating views
(I leave the discussion on information metrics & dynamics for
further exchanges).</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Best--Pedro<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">El 02/03/2023 a las 14:55, konstantin
lidin escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:VI1PR10MB19831F784C966FCD961DADFCAEB29@VI1PR10MB1983.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM">
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style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Thank
you, Howard.
<div><br class="x_x_ContentPasted1 x_ContentPasted0
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</div>
<div class="x_x_ContentPasted1 x_ContentPasted0
ContentPasted0">You are absolutely right, emotions are a
powerful tool for understanding a person and the world.
Unfortunately, they are very little studied (much less than
cognitions) and mostly remain in the realm of the
unconscious. The concept of "emotional intelligence" is
often found in the scientific literature, but it most often
means only the skill of recognizing basic emotions by the
facial expression of the interlocutor. Obviously, this is
absolutely not enough. As a result, emotions are often
perceived as some kind of "demons" that prevent a person
from thinking clearly and acting rationally, and from which
it is desirable to get rid of altogether.</div>
<div class="x_x_ContentPasted1 x_ContentPasted0
ContentPasted0">This is very strange and inconvenient,
especially considering the huge role that emotions play in
people's behavior and in the economy. We rarely realize how
much the price of emotions occupies in the consumer price of
our everyday purchases. Here is an illustration - the price
of coffee in its "natural" form, then the price of coffee
preparation services, and then the price with the addition
of prestige emotions (a fashion brand brings valuable
emotions from the "joy - pride" group).</div>
In our daily life, spending on emotions accounts for about 90%
of all expenses, and the richer the country, the greater this
share</div>
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Howard
Bloom <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:howlbloom@aol.com"><howlbloom@aol.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 02 March 2023 09:29<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com">lidinkl@hotmail.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com"><lidinkl@hotmail.com></a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com">13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com"><13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:roy.morrison114@yahoo.com">roy.morrison114@yahoo.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:roy.morrison114@yahoo.com"><roy.morrison114@yahoo.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] emotions</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="color:black; font:14pt
Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">excellent point on the
importance of emotions. and on the commercial sale of
emotions.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>i suspect that emotions are our fastest form of
information processing. in other words, they have a wisdom
of their own.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>with warmth and oomph--howard<br>
<br>
<br>
<div><font style="font-family:arial,helvetica;
font-size:10pt">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: konstantin lidin <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com"><lidinkl@hotmail.com></a><br>
To: Francesco Rizzo <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com"><13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com></a><br>
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a>;
Roy Morrison <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:roy.morrison114@yahoo.com"><roy.morrison114@yahoo.com></a><br>
Sent: Wed, Mar 1, 2023 1:53 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Fis] emotions<br>
<br>
<div id="x_yiv2999675076">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="x_yiv2999675076elementToProof
x_yiv2999675076ContentPasted0"
style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt">
Dear Francesco,
<div class="x_yiv2999675076ContentPasted0
x_yiv2999675076elementToProof">indeed, it is
difficult to understand such difficult ideas
from such a brief message.</div>
<div class="x_yiv2999675076ContentPasted0
x_yiv2999675076elementToProof"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="x_yiv2999675076ContentPasted0">For my
part, I can add that emotions are a very popular
commodity. For example, tourism is the sale of
emotions of the "interest" group. Gambling is an
industry of emotions of the group "excitement,
risk". Cinema produces and sells emotions of a
wide range, from "joy - pride" (comedies, family
films) to "disgust" (horror and punk films), and
so on. All these are market sectors with a
turnover of hundreds of billions of USD per
year.</div>
<div class="x_yiv2999675076ContentPasted0">Note
also that positive emotions (for example, such a
kind of "joy - pride" emotions as prestige)
often make up a significant part of wages in
some areas.</div>
Unfortunately, emotions are still not taken into
account in most economic models.<br clear="none">
</div>
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block;
width:1174.62px">
<div id="x_yiv2999675076yqt73527"
class="x_yiv2999675076yqt0147277752">
<div dir="ltr" id="x_yiv2999675076divRplyFwdMsg"><font
style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri,
sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Francesco
Rizzo <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com"><13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com></a><br
clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> 01 March 2023 23:49<br
clear="none">
<b>To:</b> konstantin lidin
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com"><lidinkl@hotmail.com></a><br clear="none">
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a>; Roy Morrison
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:roy.morrison114@yahoo.com"><roy.morrison114@yahoo.com></a><br
clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] emotions</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Dear Konstantin, </div>
<div>I would like to make the following
contribution: in my new economy it is not
necessary to separate humanitarian
information and natural information, since I
adopt a single trans-information process
based on the 3 surpluses or thermodynamic,
genetic and semiotic-hermeneutic
information; that is, a theory of value
underlying a single piece of information,
consisting in giving or taking shape,
measurable in bits of entropy
(in natural-rational information and in
neg-entropy (in emotional-human
communication). So that the flow
of information related to emotion, can give
rise to what I call emo-rationality. Thank
you! Do I have to apologize for my (non)
simplicity?Francesco<br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
Caro Konstantin,
<div>desidero dare il seguente contributo:
nella mia economia nuova non è necessario
separare l'informazione </div>
<div>umanitaria e l'informazione naturale,
poiché adotto un unico processo di
tras-informazione basato sui 3 </div>
<div>surplus o informazione termodinamica,
genetica e semiotico-ermeneutica; cioè una
teoria del valore sottesa </div>
<div>da un'unica informazione, consistente nel
dare o nel prendere forma, misurabile in
bit di entropia (nella </div>
<div>informazione natural-razionale e in
neg-entropia (nella comu nicazione
emozional-umana). Sicchè il flusso di </div>
<div>informazioni connesse all'emozione, può
dar luogo a quella che io chiamo
emo-ra-zionalità. </div>
<div>Grazie! Dobbo scusarmi per la mia (non)
sempicità?</div>
<div>Francesco</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div class="x_yiv2999675076x_gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"
class="x_yiv2999675076x_gmail_attr">Il
giorno mer 1 mar 2023 alle ore 09:11
konstantin lidin <<a
href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com"
data-auth="NotApplicable" shape="rect"
moz-do-not-send="true">lidinkl@hotmail.com</a>>
ha scritto:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote
class="x_yiv2999675076x_gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);
padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt">the calculation of the
amount of information contained in one
human personality is based on the
following considerations:
<div>the number of nitrogenous bases in
a DNA molecule is 3.2 billion. Each
base contains two bits of information.
In total, the amount of information in
one DNA molecule is about a gigabyte
(10^9);</div>
<div>all cells of the human body are
different and, therefore, the
information in each cell does not
coincide with the information in other
cells. Therefore, the amount of
information in the body needs to be
multiplied by the number of cells -
about 10 ^ 14;</div>
<div>the total is 10 ^ 23 bytes, that
is, one hundred zettabytes. Even
considering that 99% of cellular
information is repeated, the amount of
unique information in a living
organism is zettabytes. It is the
amount of information per unit of mass
that is the fundamental difference
between a living organism and an
inanimate one.</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Our model can be useful for the
study of intrapsychic processes.
Unfortunately, the format of a short
message does not allow us to fully
describe all the results obtained over
twenty-five years of development of
this model.</div>
<div>You are absolutely right; the human
personality is complex enough that its
individual fragments can experience
different emotions at the same time. A
person can simultaneously experience
fear of a shark, tenderness and trust
in it, sadness from his loneliness in
the middle of an endless ocean, and so
on.</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>The role of hormones and
neurotransmitters in the movement of
information through the nervous system
has not been sufficiently studied.
The processes occurring in the
synaptic cleft are associated with the
adaptation of the nervous system to
the nature of the flow of information.
The balance of neurotransmitters in
the synaptic cleft corresponds to the
characteristics of the information
flow - for example, adrenaline
promotes the passage of chaotic flows
(emotion "fear"), and
gamma-aminobutyric acid "adjusts" the
nervous system to weak information
flows (sadness).</div>
Rapid and strong changes in the balance
of neurotransmitters correspond to
"emotional storms", which is so
characteristic of young poets...<br
clear="none">
</div>
<div
id="x_yiv2999675076x_m_-6765008708301074978m_8399411625045521235m_-5083224514283971032appendonsend"></div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;
width:1161.84px">
<div dir="ltr"
id="x_yiv2999675076x_m_-6765008708301074978m_8399411625045521235m_-5083224514283971032divRplyFwdMsg"><font
style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri,
sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Roy
Morrison <<a
href="mailto:roy.morrison114@yahoo.com"
data-auth="NotApplicable"
shape="rect" moz-do-not-send="true">roy.morrison114@yahoo.com</a>><br
clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> 01 March 2023 06:54<br
clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"
data-auth="NotApplicable"
shape="rect" moz-do-not-send="true">fis@listas.unizar.es</a> <<a
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"
data-auth="NotApplicable"
shape="rect" moz-do-not-send="true">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>>;
konstantin lidin <<a
href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com"
data-auth="NotApplicable"
shape="rect" moz-do-not-send="true">lidinkl@hotmail.com</a>><br
clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] emotions</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="x_yqt0147277752">
<div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Konstantin</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I powerful and
important take on emotions as
experience of information flow. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Really appreciate "<span
style="font-family:New;
text-indent:47.2667px">In turn, we
understand information as a
structural aspect of the existence
of matter, along with the inertial
aspect (substance) and the dynamic
aspect (energy). We believe that
information is no less material
than matter and energy. "</span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span
style="font-family:New;
text-indent:47.2667px"><br
clear="none">
</span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span
style="font-family:New;
text-indent:47.2667px"> and</span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span
style="font-family:New;
text-indent:47.2667px"><br
clear="none">
</span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span
style="font-family:New;
text-indent:47.2667px"><span
style="text-indent:47.2667px">"The
total amount of information
contained on all media in all
libraries, archives and other
repositories of mankind is about
a zettabyte (10^23 bits). About
the same amount of information
contains one human personality."</span><br
clear="none">
</span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span
style="font-family:New;
text-indent:47.2667px"><span
style="text-indent:47.2667px"><br
clear="none">
</span></span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span
style="text-indent:47.2667px"><span
style="text-indent:47.2667px"> From
my experience as a lunatic, ok
as a neurotic, the complexity of
emotion is complicated by issues
of what is conscious/
repressed/ unconscious.</span></span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
style="text-indent:47.2667px"><span
style="text-indent:47.2667px">Your
model making distinctions between
Order-Chaos and Weak flow- Intense
Flow does not fully explain issues
of unconscious roiling repression
this is driven in part by hormonal
emotional activation and
repression. At the same time I
recognize the common and shared
emotional expression we share
across species. </span><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
style="text-indent:47.2667px"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
style="text-indent:47.2667px">Watching
video of a fisherman who saved a
great white shark trapped it nets.
The shark keep returning to the
fishman's small boat for days. Shark
rolled on her? back next to his boat
so he could spoke her belly to her
great pleasure.Evolutionary we
share common emotional expression
and the similar brain chemicals.</div>
<div dir="ltr"
style="text-indent:47.2667px"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
style="text-indent:47.2667px">Roy</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
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